Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

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Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by mrkwhlbrk »

I don't know what the results of the survey will show, but I just wanted it noted that if Steinberg does adopt a subscription model for selling Cubase and other products, that will be an absolute deal-breaker for me. I have used Cubase steadily since 1992, and have rarely considered switching to another product. Adobe's switch to the subscription-based Creative Cloud model may possibly work for them only because they have a monopoly in that field. If Steinberg adopts a subscription-based model, I will immediately switch to a competitor's product that does not. I would retain by current version of Cubase only for archival purposes.

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by GliderBoy »

I'm with you, brother. Subscription-based models may work for hard-copy magazines, where I get to keep every issue I've received for as long as I want to, and to read, re-read and refer to them any time that I want to, even if I choose to cancel the subscription, after which I will simply not receive any new issues.

The subscription-based model for software is a different beast altogether. It would feel like extortion if I were to continue paying month-after-month to use a particular software package, knowing that when the day comes that I choose to end the subscription, I am left with nothing. The value of all that money that I would have invested over months, years or even decades would simply vanish into thin air, as I'd be left with a software package and various updates that would cease to function when I end the subscription. That is very uncool on every conceivable level.

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by Adam_Bove »

Sounds more like a "Lease" than a subscription
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by plectrumboy »

I think you're right to highlight the main question as being about people's reaction to the idea of a subscription based relationship with Steinberg. I would also want to say I found the survey very frustrating because a number of questions were either/or, and in fact they should have offered a further option along the lines of 'I can see that both might be useful'.

For example there were a few questions asking if I prefer to download the whole software package in one go or have the option of doing it in stages (and presumably paying in stages). Well actually both of those options have merit for me. I will (fanboy:ON) probably always buy the latest iteration of Cubase immediately, as I have always done, but (fanboy:OFF) would be more likely to dip my toe into the other software offerings such as the eq and compressor from Yamaha and Neve if I could do so gradually. I could not answer the survey accurately because I didn't have the option of expressing this.

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by Keith99 »

Thing is you say you "I have used Cubase steadily since 1992" so like a subscription then just with payments more widely distributed :)

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by NWP »

Can this be locked? Already a similar, off-topic thread was moved to the Lounge. :roll:

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by plectrumboy »

This is the 'general' forum for Cubase - why is this a problem here? You forum Police?
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

since 99.9% people will have answered nay to the suggestion in the survey, i think it should not be a concern. it may work for adobe, but their product enjoys a different standing on the market. if sb were to introduce it, people would just move on elsewhere. a lot of them anyway.
Last edited by lukasbrooklyn on Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by distante »

Deal breaker here also

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by curteye »

IMHO in one form or another, it is coming.

And there will be no place to run/hide.

All DAWs will eventually end up doing it.
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by Mahlon »

Absolutely Haaaay-ell no!

I've got too many very expensive softwares doing that already; I can't stand that model, and I'm keen on leaving them the next time 'round. $545 for a 3ds max subscription per year! Please!! But then, like you say, monopoly. Autodesk owns the three big 3d packages. Truly a sad state in the 3d industry.

But I don't see "since 99.9% people will have answered nay to the suggestion in the survey"

Was there a poll?

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by Buchanan »

Do any of you REALLY not know that you are already using a "subscription" model? Work it out kiddies. The upgrades are pretty regular. And you ALL just HAVE to have the latest version.
Now I know from the dafter posts, and the lack of any other really serious issues, that version 7.5 has pretty much zero wrong with it. :D
Scraping barrels for complaints is plainly a serious illness. :lol: Never seen the griefmonkeys so desperate.
Or are you all secretly Steinberg staff having a laugh?
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

Buchanan wrote:Do any of you REALLY not know that you are already using a "subscription" model? Work it out kiddies. The upgrades are pretty regular. And you ALL just HAVE to have the latest version.
Now I know from the dafter posts, and the lack of any other really serious issues, that version 7.5 has pretty much zero wrong with it. :D
Scraping barrels for complaints is plainly a serious illness. :lol: Never seen the griefmonkeys so desperate.
Or are you all secretly Steinberg staff having a laugh?
i know you're not being too serious, but there's great psychological difference to buying an updated version when you actually want (even though you may buy all updates eventually anyway), and having a recurring payment on your credit card. as long as not all daw manufacturers don't jump on this bandwagon at once, or as long as your daw is not that exceptional and indispensable that you couldn't switch to another, this is not a good idea imho.

as regards your 'one has to have all the latest versions'; i know it wasn't serious either, but for stability's sake, i am now moving to an 11 years old version of sound forge, and actually went from 7 to 6 to cubase 5 for a certain project now that the lesser ram footprint of c5 makes easier to work with. it's all horses for courses, and for serious projects, reliability comes before newer versions.
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by NorthWood MediaWorks »

I would not support a subscription model. Total deal breaker here.
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by alexis »

Could a "subscription model" mean that if I stop paying I can continue using what I have, just not have access to updates? I'd be OK with that.

Surely internet access wouldn't be required to use the DAW ... wouldn't that exclude most remote recording sessions (out standing in their field, etc.)?
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by JClosed »

An subscription model would be a absolute deal breaker for me..

I don't have steady income, only a solid base whith sometimes a boost that I use for "nicety's". It's enough to pay my bills and so on, but I cannot afford to have a monthly subscription on top of those I already have. I buy my software (music or otherwise) when I get payed some extra for completing whole projects (I do computers/networks and am also a graphical artist). This can be a few times at any time of the year, but certainly not monthly.

If Steinberg should introduce an subscription model, I would stick with the latest non-subscibe software and stop buying anything from Steinberg. I simply have no other choice. At this moment I have Cubase 7.5 and a few instruments/soundsets, and that is more than enough for the years to come. I would like to keep my software updated, but only buy the upgrades (and maybe some extra's) at the time it is possible and affordable for me to do so.

In short - If Steinberg goes for an subscription model they have simply lost an costumer..

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by seer4god »

I really love the product, if it does turn into a lease I'm gone, been here since Cubase SE
;)

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by lukasbrooklyn »

this would be interesting with regard to pro tools. too many pro / post facilities have invested too much into their rigs, it seems avid could get away with some chutzpah scheme like this. not steinberg i'm afraid, there is still too many an option to switch to another daw.
system// i7 4930k, w7 x64, c7.5.4, (c8)
audio// RME HDSP, SSL duende, audeze lcd-2, klein&hummel o300, adam s2x, lavry DA, avantone mixcubes, EL Fatso ...

http://www.lukasturza.com // http://www.snapmastering.com // music production / mixing / mastering [hybris, upbeats, noisia, rem koolhaas, czech television, havas, ogilvy, ...]

cubendo supercharged workflow ideas/threads of possible interest:
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=63450
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=38182
my supercharged workflow videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ellGhSdmXfk

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by blackcat »

I agree with most of the posts here. I wouldn't object to a subscription model if it was optional, but users need a choice. If they do away with perpetual licenses, I won't be subscribing.

I use Adobe products for my work, and was disgusted when they went Cloud-only. I'll be sticking with CS6 for as long as possible, and then looking into competing products when CS6 is no longer compatible with new hardware. I don't need all the latest and greatest upgrades, so hopefully that'll be a good few years yet. If SB go the same way, I'll just stick with whatever version of Cubase is current, then look into alternatives when it becomes necessary. I'd really rather not have to switch though - I like Cubase best out of all the DAWs I've tried.

Software companies need to realise that many people want to upgrade on their own schedule. I'm self-employed with an unpredictable income, so the last thing I want is another fixed monthly cost. I'd rather just put the money aside for upgrades as and when I want to. I also don't want to be left without access to my files if I can't continue subscribing for whatever reason (assuming projects using newer features wouldn't be backwards-compatible with older versions of the software). Another problem that I've seen on the Adobe Cloud forum is that when the inevitable glitches happen, and people can't run their software, customer service isn't always as helpful as it should be. This is annoying for anyone, but is a threat to the livelihood of professional users with client deadlines. Would Steinberg's customer support be any better?

With a few exceptions (anti-virus & the like), software as a service is a horrible idea, IMO. Some might say 'it's the future', but that's only true if customers allow it. Businesses will do whatever is most profitable for them, so we need to vote with our wallets. At least SB is asking for our input in advance. Hopefully they'll listen.

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by profezeus »

I'm using Cubase since the Atari times, so for more than 20 years it's a part of my life - like an old friend.
The subscription model would alienate me, and it saddens me to have to consider switching to another DAW.
Nonetheless I'm with you that it is a deal breaker and I would definitely be one more old loyal costumer whom they would loose.
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by Elektrobolt »

One, I agree with curteye, that eventually there won't be a choice. Unless people vote with their wallet, which they won't, because... well there it is.

Two, the people comparing the current model with a subscription model is not correct, IMO. It depends on a number of factors, but the primary difference is that my credit card would be at the sellers disposal, and another account on which to maintain the keys to our banks. This enables them to come up with schemes that normally would not be feasible. Imagine for example, paying per patch. This not only keeps the door open to your dollars, but it opens one to your pennies as well. ;) And then the banks start charging you for each transaction, and it goes on...

It is not so much a physical thing as a psychological thing. If you disagree, then consider why is everything moving this way? If there is no inherent difference, then why the change?
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by -steve- »

curteye wrote:IMHO in one form or another, it is coming.

And there will be no place to run/hide.

All DAWs will eventually end up doing it.
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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by Woodcrest Studio »

If there were more specifics to the subscription model, I would have some thoughts, but right now it is speculation.

I will say that I am usually a .5 to full version behind current development cycles because the bleeding edge brings issues. I believe I am skipping version 7 all together like I did with version 4. Too much to worry about in my case because work flow and client relations can be jeopardized and the last time I dealt with steinberg support, I was being aided by an amateur that was of no help. This is not comforting on the bleeding edge. If a subscription impacted my behind the new release type of "protection" of my business, I would definitely not go for it. I would rather own my tools as well.

Has anyone witnessed the adaption of adobe's model? How has the adobe community of users felt about it?

Reading this:
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop ... guide.html

I am not enthusiastic about it at all. Thankfully we are not cornered to cubase or Nuendo and there are other options out there.

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by Woodcrest Studio »

"I subscribe the product for a fixed monthly fee and have always access to the latest version. When the subscription ends, I no longer can use the software."

That's from the questioner. If this is the case, what I have in bold, I will not continue into the era of subscription. I will own the last version before the adaptation.

Steinberg, you have two thumbs down from me on this.
ImageImage

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Re: Survey suggest Steinberg considering subscription model

Post by -steve- »

I can see this from SB's (or any software dev's) side.

Years ago it was revolutionary to be able to pay $800 to get a software version of what previously cost say, $20,000 – the mixing desk, tape maichines etc., plus the rental or purchase the space to put it in.

Now, in 2014 many older versions of Cubase are complete enough for many users, so updating is not a necessity. Additionally, the way the SB licenses work we can buy and sell our licenses without restriction so a new user can, theoritically, buy a copy of Cubase 5 or 6 and be in business with a rather complete feature set, and SB gets nothing from that sale (and, of course, does not have to provide support.)

I think the model they should adopt (though the pricing would be different) is the one used by Figure 53, who make Qlab: http://figure53.com/qlab/buy/
Image
This can create new revenue, and its implementation would have the side effect of offering an immediate, automated solution the lost dongle emergency. (you could just rent Cubase/Nuendo for a period of time if you could not reach tech support, like on Friday night, 30 minutes before the downbeat of a 3 day run)

Software manufacturers are trying to find a way to make more money without alienating their customers. I thnk they want to test the waters to see how users would react to the idea, and they are getting an earfull from people who already own licenses. People who do not yet own a license would have a very different perspective.
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