Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

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lalithkr
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Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by lalithkr »

Since nuendo 5.5/Cubase 6

I have noticed that creating ghost regions with the option + pencil tool,
creates an audio container rather than an actual audio file.
This is extremely frustrating.
There is currently no way I can change to make real audio files in the project.
I have made a video explaining my issue.

http://youtu.be/hXv2OgJkjMU

(sorry about no mic in the video)

I have also included the corresponence with Steinberg Support Team regarding changes to the Bounce Function.
If we can get enough people to agree regarding this changes, their developers will revert these changes to the way they were in all old version of Nuendo and Cubase.

---------------
Hello Lalith,

I am writing up your request for our developers. However, the place they use to gauge user feature requests is mainly our forums. I would suggest posting this in the http://www.steinberg.net/forum

If other users agree this is a feature they want, that will do the most good in raising its profile as a feature the programmers will give development time to adding. Thank you.

Chris dobbs
Steinberg US Support

--------------- Original Message ---------------
From: Lalith Rao [lalith_rao@hotmail.com]
Sent: 2/8/2012 5:59 AM
To: supportreply@yamaha.com
Subject: RE: einberg Support Case Ref.#01002296ref:_00D30F1z._50030J1wDP:ref

Hi Chris,

I appreciate you helping me to workaround an already established workflow of countless engineers in your platform since prior software versions.

Strangely none of these methods are intuitive to the workflow. An old 1 step and simple process is now a 10 step process.

Such changes will indefinitely loose your customers to the rapid advancements in AVID Pro tools.

A simple consolidate (opt + shift +3) in protools used to be "bounce" in Cubase and Nuendo uptill 4 (maybe even 5.0 if i am correct) (i think i might have to bump back down to Nuendo 5.0 from 5.5.2)

I love your DAW platform and I am speaking for a lot of engineers who just find these changes completely unnecessary.

I would however sincerely appreciate some messages to your R&D team to consider reverting these changes to the bounce function and creation of audio parts/events.

Or at-least add another simple consolidate/create audio event from selection function for a selection in the timeline that can create an actual audio event/file.

I completely understand that such requests are a long and lengthy process, but i would appreciate it if you can consider these requests from your customers because we

are your end users.

Sincerely,
Lalith Rao

> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 20:13:31 +0000
> From: supportreply@yamaha.com
> To: lalith_rao@hotmail.com
> Subject: RE: einberg Support Case Ref.#01002296ref:_00D30F1z._50030J1wDP:ref
>
> Hello Lalith,
>
> I'm sorry but there is not a way to have the draw tool create a silent audio file. When you draw with the pencil tool, it is creating an audio "part", not an audio event with silence. This is why if you select such a "blank" part, you will notice that you cannot do any of the audio processes to it (bounce, hitpoints, etc are greyed out).
>
> Here are my two suggestions to improve your workflow with this:
>
> 1. Setup a key command for the "Slience" process. This way you can move any audio event to the desired location you would have drawn, press the "Silence" command, and use that as if it was the drawing of Silence. Then you can do the bounce audio process from there.
>
> 2. Use the Channel Batch Export option to create a new file from the desired bounce area. Then you can reimport that mixdown to the track and it will be the length of the left and right locators. Please note, this will bounce the audio event with the effects, fader levels, etc.
>
> I hope this information is helpful.
>
> Chris Dobbs
> Steinberg US Support
>
>

twelvetwelve
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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by twelvetwelve »

I would ask what you are wanting to achieve by bouncing two empty events to create silence?

If you are wanting to add a silent head/tail to a piece of audio or if you are just simply wanting to consolidate all tracks from start -> finish then instead choose the range tool, select the range from start -> end across all the tracks you want to consolidate and use the bounce function. Far faster than having to draw blank events in.

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by goodbyenine »

I too often need to bounce events even though I am just adding silence. The reason is if I create stems that must then be imported into another facility as BWavs, for the avoidance of doubt I make sure they all have the same start point and ideally end point too.

Sometimes my punch-ins have a little history to them, leaving some stems occasionally staggered looking.

However, I must say that the range tool function does indeed do the trick. So problem solved? Or not?

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by lalithkr »

Like I said i want to create an actual audio file within the session by creating it from a selection.
This is typical work flow in a spotting session in post production or in a music session.

The Pencil + Draw method as I mentioned worked in all versions of cubase/nuendo worked up till the changes made in Cubase6/Nuendo 5.5

I infact bought cubase 6 and then bought nuendo 5 hoping that they didn't change these functions yet in N5...then found out that they did.

Please understand the key here is to make actual audio files/ghost regions in one quick and easy step.
It is absolutely critical to the workflow and can be used in various different situations.

For example
1.Spotting Session in a post production project. Before all the foley, sound design, effects are implemented. A nice and clean spotting session is made with ghost regions of actual audio files time stamped.

2.The way I and countless engineers use the pencil draw function in a music session is, lets say i have an intricate bit of edits made for an 8bar section. But the audio events dont start exactly on the downbeat on Bar 1. Now if i wanted to bounce/consolidate all these edits into a 8bar loop quickly. I would quickly option + draw an audio part with the pencil tool on either ends and bounce/consolidate the edits. Then i can quickly duplicate the bounced/consolidated 8bar loop for following song sections or fly em in at a different moment within the song.

3.Let us say you want to quickly reverse a region or audio event but you want to snap the end of the region to the end of a bar. One way you can do this is open the audio event in the editor and modify the event slice within the audio event so it snaps to end of the region.{SLOW way]

The quicker way is to option + pencil draw an audio event. Bounce it together with the audio event. Quickly reverse it with your favorite shortcut key, so the reversed part exactly ends at the end of the bar you wish it to end at.

There are countless more situations that you can use the option + pencil function to your advantage. But I simply don't have the time to go over all my techniques.

I have also hear the "solution" from other saying that you can record an audio part quickly. Stop it. Take a part from it and copy a section. Then bounce it together and make a new audio event. This is again non conducive to an established workflow.

If other users who have experience with older versions of cubase or nuendo can add on, I am sure you can understand what I am talking about.

I am sure steinberg will listen as they have always listened to their customers, and we request to revert this critical change in the software.

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by lalithkr »

likelystory wrote:I would ask what you are wanting to achieve by bouncing two empty events to create silence?

If you are wanting to add a silent head/tail to a piece of audio or if you are just simply wanting to consolidate all tracks from start -> finish then instead choose the range tool, select the range from start -> end across all the tracks you want to consolidate and use the bounce function. Far faster than having to draw blank events in.

Hi thanks for your suggestion. But the key here is to make actual audio events.
The range tool will not bounce a selection made if there are no audio events within the range of the selection.

if you know a way please tell me.

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by twelvetwelve »

lalithkr wrote:
likelystory wrote:I would ask what you are wanting to achieve by bouncing two empty events to create silence?

If you are wanting to add a silent head/tail to a piece of audio or if you are just simply wanting to consolidate all tracks from start -> finish then instead choose the range tool, select the range from start -> end across all the tracks you want to consolidate and use the bounce function. Far faster than having to draw blank events in.

Hi thanks for your suggestion. But the key here is to make actual audio events.
The range tool will not bounce a selection made if there are no audio events within the range of the selection.

if you know a way please tell me.
For better or worse at the moment you can't "bounce" (consolidate) what isn't there. I hope Steinberg create a function where you can process within a range selection (use a signal generator to insert silence) like PT does.

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by Dietz »

I'd just drag'n'drop a pre-made second of silence from the Pool.
/Dietz

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by Sam »

That sucks....in all versions up to now i could create a silent bit of audio by selecting empty space with the range tool and going "Bounce Selection"

If it aint broke, get in a screw it up :)

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt »

+1 for this
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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by lalithkr »

Here is the link ( https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtop ... lit=bounce ) to more cubase 6 users who are requesting this feature amongst many other engineers in my facility that used to use this feature part of their workflow.

Now it has been unnecessarily changed.

As mentioned in the article The range tool will allow you to select a section but will not bounce actual audio events
if the selection doesnot already contain previously created audio events within the selection.

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by Oliver.Lucas »

+1

i don't see why you change the software for worse...
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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by Guest »

+1 for this. I used to use this method all the time. Now I copy a piece of audio and silence it creating a new version - unnecessary workaround..

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by twelvetwelve »

I still don't understand why you need to bounce nothing but silence? All the examples listed (and the link to Cubase 6) except for spotting can be accomplished with the range tool as you are wanting to extend an existing audio event to include silence.
2.The way I and countless engineers use the pencil draw function in a music session is, lets say i have an intricate bit of edits made for an 8bar section. But the audio events dont start exactly on the downbeat on Bar 1. Now if i wanted to bounce/consolidate all these edits into a 8bar loop quickly. I would quickly option + draw an audio part with the pencil tool on either ends and bounce/consolidate the edits. Then i can quickly duplicate the bounced/consolidated 8bar loop for following song sections or fly em in at a different moment within the song.
Either group the audio events to a part (which snaps to the bar) or use the range tool and bounce selection if you want a new audio file.
3.Let us say you want to quickly reverse a region or audio event but you want to snap the end of the region to the end of a bar. One way you can do this is open the audio event in the editor and modify the event slice within the audio event so it snaps to end of the region.{SLOW way]
Use the range tool and bounce selection.

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by MattiasNYC »

likelystory wrote:Use the range tool and bounce selection.
I thought he said it didn't work!?

For the record, I too sometimes "bounce" in order to get audio files generated that are to very specific lengths that include head and/or tail with silence. Sometimes it's useful.

+1 on not changing the way the software works;

- if it's not necessary
- without telling the users if it is

The second point being more source for frustration than necessary.
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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by twelvetwelve »

It works perfectly well except if you're trying to bounce absolutely nothing (there's nothing to bounce so it doesn't bounce). As mentioned, the link to the Cubase 6 thread had someone suggest the range tool too and that user was able to accomplish the task.

Using a blank event to extend an existing event can be done with less steps using the range tool.

What needs to happen is to be able to instead select a range and activate a function to print across that range i.e. generate "silence" across any given range like PT does.

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by MattiasNYC »

likelystory wrote:It works perfectly well except if you're trying to bounce absolutely nothing (there's nothing to bounce so it doesn't bounce). As mentioned, the link to the Cubase 6 thread had someone suggest the range tool too and that user was able to accomplish the task.
The two in bold above are directly contradicting each other. That's what I'm getting at.

Either the original poster can do what he wants to do with the range tool, or he can't. The conflicting info is confusing.
likelystory wrote:Using a blank event to extend an existing event can be done with less steps using the range tool.
And that blank event contains absolutely nothing then? And then the two are consolidated into one and can be bounced with the same desired end-result?
likelystory wrote:What needs to happen is to be able to instead select a range and activate a function to print across that range i.e. generate "silence" across any given range like PT does.
Precisely.
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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by twelvetwelve »

There's no contradicting information.

If you're trying to bounce nothing (a blank event) then it won't bounce anything (this is logical although a change from previous functionality). If you want to accomplish a function whereby you used to use a blank event to extend and bounce an existing audio event just use the range tool.

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by Sunshy »

+1 I like the old behavior. But the range tool method works.
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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by Guest »

likelystory wrote:There's no contradicting information.

If you're trying to bounce nothing (a blank event) then it won't bounce anything (this is logical although a change from previous functionality). If you want to accomplish a function whereby you used to use a blank event to extend and bounce an existing audio event just use the range tool.

:D This works perfectly for me - thanks likelystory!!

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by MattiasNYC »

likelystory wrote:There's no contradicting information.

If you're trying to bounce nothing (a blank event) then it won't bounce anything (this is logical although a change from previous functionality). If you want to accomplish a function whereby you used to use a blank event to extend and bounce an existing audio event just use the range tool.
Ok, I must have misunderstood you then. Since I've never bothered with this in Nuendo, how do you create your blank event?
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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by twelvetwelve »

Lydiot wrote: Ok, I must have misunderstood you then. Since I've never bothered with this in Nuendo, how do you create your blank event?
I should be using the term part here since that's what the pencil tool creates. You can use the pencil tool to create a blank part on an audio track. If you want an audio event containing silence that's another matter.

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by MattiasNYC »

likelystory wrote:
Lydiot wrote: Ok, I must have misunderstood you then. Since I've never bothered with this in Nuendo, how do you create your blank event?
I should be using the term part here since that's what the pencil tool creates. You can use the pencil tool to create a blank part on an audio track. If you want an audio event containing silence that's another matter.
Ok, but so using the pencil tool I can create a part that has empty space in it, and from there get to a bounced audio file that has that same space, correct?
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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by twelvetwelve »

Incorrect. That is what has changed. When you think about it it is a logical change e.g. you can't "bounce" something that doesn't exist, and one I would imagine it has been done to improve scalability in future versions.

What Nuendo now needs is the ability to process a blank range with a plug-in to create a new audio event so you can create something from nothing e.g. using the signal generator to generate silence across a given range.

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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by MattiasNYC »

likelystory wrote:Incorrect. That is what has changed. When you think about it it is a logical change e.g. you can't "bounce" something that doesn't exist, and one I would imagine it has been done to improve scalability in future versions.

What Nuendo now needs is the ability to process a blank range with a plug-in to create a new audio event so you can create something from nothing e.g. using the signal generator to generate silence across a given range.
Ok, so how does what you say solve his problem if what he wants to do is include "nothing" into a new audio file?
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Re: Bounce Functions Changed since Nuendo 5.5

Post by twelvetwelve »

Ultimately you're trying to get from point A->B in as little time as possible. One great thing about Nuendo is there are many ways of reaching the same destination. From looking at the original poster's problem I could suggest a few different methods which would probably be faster but it all depends on what the original poster is trying to achieve. I'd need more information in context before I would be confident of a faster solution.

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