Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

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Gadgetsz
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Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by Gadgetsz »

Dear Community - dear Cubase.

My eyes hurt. Its 2020, SpaceX is soon heading towards MARS, and we, the musicians, composers, producers, are stuck with "ultra low graphic-quality-userinterfaces" on ultra high definition monitors - realy?? :D

My question:
Does anyone know, when Cubase Pro will finally be fully usable with HiDPI on Windows? By fully usuable, I imagine something like 150% scalling, nice scalled Pluginsizes, Waveforms that are sharp, etc...? As we all know, there are thoose issues with either cubase beeing to big or to small on 4k, cause of their limited scaling-modes (100% and 200%). And yes, there is a workaround (dsr-factors). But: NVidia dissabled that feature on most of their newer grafficard-driver and/or randomly show or not show that option in their drivers.

Any informations or insights?

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by GlennO »

I know what you're asking, but my insight is: why on earth would anybody want a ultra high res display for music production? Many studios in fact use relatively low PPI television monitors for displays.
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theRoyal1
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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by theRoyal1 »

I hate to be that guy but This has been covered extensively in the other threads about it...
No one knows when,
they are aware and
Yes, you can only currently choose certain levels of Magnification/Zoom (Win) within Cubase.
GlennO wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:13 pm
I know what you're asking, but my insight is: why on earth would anybody want a ultra high res display for music production? Many studios in fact use relatively low PPI television monitors for displays.
I've been on my 4k for almost 7 years now and the amount of real estate on 4k vs 1080 is well worth the current issues. iow, I will never go back to a1080 workspace. If there are "many studios" it's because they can't not that they won't.
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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by GlennO »

Sure, I like lots of real estate too. But the problem is the PPI, not the number of pixels. If your PPI is so high that you need scaling, then maybe you should be using a bigger monitor with that same number of pixels. In other words, the pain that HiDPI has inflicted on musicians is because they are using a high PPI that is suitable for photography and video, but unsuitable for music production.
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wwwFINKcz
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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by wwwFINKcz »

... all these discussions? Just rubbish. I am so tired of this Steinberg's problem ignoring

The HiDPI programming???
150% scaling? Or 125% and 175% etc? Matter of hours, not more!! I have 4K displays maybe for about 4 years. I have maybe 10 licenses of Cubase, Nuendo, Wavelab, etc. Bought every new upgrade in hope, they will finally add full HiDPI support on 150% DPI (even they still claim - yes, bigger support for HiDPI). And my beloved software still not fully support that. This is just crazy!

And what more? What about the old plugins with non Hi-dpi interface? Programming - 2 hours, not more!!!! Because you can put these old plugins on a frame and stretch them. Will they be blurry then? OH b-ull-s-hit!!! Because on the 2x bigger dpi-scale is the result absolutely the SAME as on lower resolution with nonHiDPI scaling. There is totally no difference. In reverse, on higher DPI will it be slightly crispier. Nobody will complain about its overscaled design!!! Because it will be just bigger. Like you stretch your fullHD video on 4K fullscreen size. They can just add an button next to "take snapshot of the plugin" with double, tripple scaling of any plugin. 2 hours of cubase/nuendo programming, problem? Solved for another 10years.

sad, sad, sad, sad. How many sad HiDPI posts I read here?? Maybe hundreds of them.

I can be something like this ... see the attachement
CUBASE ZOOM.jpg
(1014.13 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Last edited by wwwFINKcz on Mon May 25, 2020 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by valkolton »

GlennO wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:13 pm
I know what you're asking, but my insight is: why on earth would anybody want a ultra high res display for music production? Many studios in fact use relatively low PPI television monitors for displays.
Will AI will be composing and mastering our music by time we get working HiDPI Windows support?

I don't even KNOW where to find a 1080P monitor anymore lol, I am working in 8k video later this year and I am banging my head everyday that 4K is still not working in Cubase/Nuendo with my Native Instruments, Waves and hundreds of other plugins. I also have a Macbook, and ofc this isn't an issue so I do not think Steinberg realizes how much of a pain it is for us Windows users.

I am a high end developer, and I work with video/audio/gaming/VR/AR and 4k is a REQUIREMENT for studios doing the same. Look at Steinbergs ads, all showing video scoring and multiple monitors on high end setups.

Devs, creators and pros need the color accuracy, calibration, brightness and HDR that only modern 4K+ monitors have. And they NEED Windows as only Windows can run VR, games and use NVIDIA GPUS for 3D rendering.

This problem seriously would take 2-3 hours of programming maximum. Just add the option to scale the plugin 100, 120, 150,200 and check that dragging across different monitors with different resolutions resets the window. Other DAWs have done this forever... Bitwig has a scaling option in addition to the default way that Ableton handles it nicely.

HELP US STEINBERG, DON'T FORCE US TO SELL OUR CARS TO BUY CHEESE GRATERS - I MEAN, MAC PROS!!!

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by valkolton »

Has anybody submitted an official support ticket to Steinberg about this issue and got a reply?

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by Gadgetsz »

wwwFINKcz wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 1:40 am
... all these discussions? Just rubbish. I am so tired of this Steinberg's problem ignoring

The HiDPI programming???
150% scaling? Or 125% and 175% etc? Matter of hours, not more!! I have 4K displays maybe for about 4 years. I have maybe 10 licenses of Cubase, Nuendo, Wavelab, etc. Bought every new upgrade in hope, they will finally add full HiDPI support on 150% DPI (even they still claim - yes, bigger support for HiDPI). And my belowed software still not fully support that. This is just crazy!

And what more? What about the old plugins with non Hi-dpi interface? Programming - 2 hours, not more!!!! Because you can put these old plugins on a frame and stretch them. Will they be blurry then? OH b-ull-s-hit!!! Because on the 2x bigger dpi-scale is the result absolutely the SAME as on lower resolution with nonHiDPI scaling. There is totally no difference. In reverse, on higher DPI will it be slightly crispier. Nobody will complain about its overscaled design!!! Because it will be just bigger. Like you stretch your fullHD video on 4K fullscreen size. They can just add an button next to "take snapshot of the plugin" with double, tripple scaling of any plugin. 2 hours of cubase/nuendo programming, problem? Solved for another 10years.

sad, sad, sad, sad. How many sad HiDPI posts I read here?? Maybe hundreds of them.

I can be something like this ... see the attachement

CUBASE ZOOM.jpg
That would be just amazing. Thanks to all for your reply. I hope steinberg will see this post and hey, why dont we hand in official support tickets - Im going to do that.

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by FishCorp »

I can't wrap my head around why anybody would defend Steinberg in this situation. HiDPI was a selling point in Cubase Pro 10; that and ARA was my reason to upgrade. And here in 10.5 - 18 month (give or take) later, it still doesn't work reliably for production work. Same could be said for ARA; plenty of obvious bugs.

Steinberg has got to get their **** together, and stop selling these half baked features that never fully materializes. If you bought Cubase 10.0 to work in HiDPI on your 4k display laptop, you got suckered - plain and simple. The last update for that branch has been announced, so you're straight out of luck! Simple 2:1 scaling for plugins would actually make it usable. As for the 100% / 200% only caveat: that was announced upon release .. so .. i guess thats more of a feature request. But seriously - you can't sell something and never deliver; that's illegal!

If HiDPI is useful or not shouldn't really be part of the discussion IMHO. And - might i add - If this problem is unfixable in 18 month, something is either seriously wrong with the code - or much more likely - not a priority @ Steinberg.

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by Franklinspired »

valkolton wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 2:48 am
Has anybody submitted an official support ticket to Steinberg about this issue and got a reply?
Yes I have a couple of months ago and my complain was that Native Instruments Kontakt 6 scaled ugly small on my 4K monitor with Cubase HiDPI.
The answer from Steinberg was that the problem was caused by Native Instruments Kontakt and I should contact them to solve the problem.
I did contact Native Instruments but NEVER got an answer from them!

I understand FishCorp's frustration, because now I'm also forced to work without HiDPI in Cubase 10.5.12 with blurred fonts.
Now, that is a customer friendly option, isn't it?

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by GlennO »

valkolton wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 2:08 am
I am a high end developer, and I work with video/audio/gaming/VR/AR and 4k is a REQUIREMENT for studios doing the same.
I was talking about PPI, not the pixel count. I'm just curious why people want to use scaling. I use a 4k monitor in my studio, but it would never occur to me to buy one that will require scaling before I can use it for music production. I'm not defending Steinberg. This obviously must be fixed (the same can be said for sampler track, mixer snapshots, ara support, audio alignment, etc.). I'm just curious about this problem. Are people using 4k laptops?
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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by FishCorp »

GlennO wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 1:50 pm
I was talking about PPI, not the pixel count. I'm just curious why people want to use scaling.
Personally i just find high PPI content easier to read. Currently i'm running 2 x 24" 1920 x 1200 displays at the studio. I imagine you have a large 4k display, if you're comfortable with 1:1 scaling. My laptop, however, has a 15" 4K screen, and Cubase (the parts that are actually HiDPI) looks amazing!

The only showstopping thing preventing me for grabbing new 4k displays for the studio is the inability of Cubase to scale up HiDPI-unaware plugins. Ableton Live does this, same goes for Studio One. I'm not asking for magic - just a simple checkbox in the plugin-manager (like Ableton btw) that scales up plugins 2:1.

Lots of plugins are built on the JUCE framework, which finally seems to have HiDPI on Windows under control. However - Native Instruments seems stuck, in regards to their back catalog of plugins, and so does a lot of other smaller plugins developers. UAD also comes to mind .. (at least on Win; not sure about OSX).

I bet the real issue stems from Steinberg using Qt as the interface-framework, which pretty much puts it out of their control, unless they fork the code. Ableton as well as Studio One seems to have a custom windowing system already!

In any case - making HiDPI a selling point of a product, then not delivering a usable implementation (when everybody else is able to do so), is just not .. well .. not ok!

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by valkolton »

Agreed - all Steinberg needs to do is 2:1 scaling for HiDPI-unaware plugins like Ableton and this issue is solved. And check that if you drag the plugin from 1080p to 4k it resizes as it should.

There are just too many plugins that will never be scaled, and musicians should be able to use legacy plugins just like we do vintage equipment. Native, Waves, Arturia, Korg, etc...

We should all submit official support tickets for a HiDPI Windows fix - maybe we all write the same text about the HiDPI bug and they will pay attention by the multiple requests. Like a HiDPI petition.

If it is a selling point of a product, it must function properly. Any modern DAW needs proper HiDPI for the variety of monitors out there.

STEINBERG INVENTED THE VST, so their DAWs should support their own amazing invention better than other DAWs.

Even MusicRadar.com's review said HiDPI is buggy at the very top of their NUENDO review! Steinberg MUST know this is a huge issue?!

https://www.musicradar.com/reviews/steinberg-nuendo-10

MUSIC RADAR NUENDO REVIEW

OUR VERDICT
Nuendo offers lots of power to those working with picture, game audio and VR, all the while keeping Cubase users happy

PROS
ARA 2 support
Video cut detection
Video rendering

CONS
Audio alignment features need further tweaking
Price
HiDPI support is still limited on Windows

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by matthewmooremusic »

My problem is with vst plugin guis when using windows scaling. For example, nexus gui is unusable at 125% in Cubase but looks absolutely fine in reaper.....

I do get the impression from reading around that Steinberg are completely aware of the situation and are working on it....

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by valkolton »

Well Cubase got an update and no HiDPI fix was mentioned, I am using Nuendo, did anybody install the new update and check if they SILENTLY fixed this?

I seriously doubt it if it wasn't in the release notes.. but it is worth a try!!!???

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by valkolton »

I tried the Cubase update to see if they silently fixed it by some miracle, but of course HiDPI is still tragically flawed on Cubase/Nuendo on Windows still.

Looks like I need to use Ableton for my plugins to work until this is finally resolved...

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by jimknopf »

It is a pain to see how incredibly long Steinberg leaves this halfbaked Cubase UI unfixed!
This behavior really alienates customers.

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by Blumentopferd »

I find myself quite happy using my 4k display in native resolution along Cubase 10.5.

If you are using Windows 10, I would suggest to try out if this fixes your problem. I have no scaling issues with any plugins, had them before just as you described.

Cubase 10 looks actually really nice on a 4k Display and it scales nicely, it seems that Windows can cause these scaling issues.

Image

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by matthewmooremusic »

But if you do that then you can't use windows scaling....

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by Blumentopferd »

matthewmooremusic wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:48 pm
But if you do that then you can't use windows scaling....
Exactly. Because Windows 10 scaling is broken.

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by matthewmooremusic »

Blumentopferd wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:52 pm
matthewmooremusic wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:48 pm
But if you do that then you can't use windows scaling....
Exactly. Because Windows 10 scaling is broken.
It is, but without it, many users are struggling to deal with Cubase's small fonts and icons on 4k displays!

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by F5D »

It is very strange that even 10.5 did not bring the hidpi scaling fix. My Cubase license has been about a year unused, since I bought it new, because it cannot be used. I have 50" 4k monitor with 150 % scaling in Win 10, and I watch it from about 1 m distance. Everything else is scaled perfectly. Using Cubase in hidpi-mode with 100 % scaling is too small to my eyes, because eyes start to hurt. 125 % or 150 % would be optimal. Normal mode hurts, because it is blurry. Bitwig since version 2 has scaled properly on 4k, including all 3rd party plugins as well. Why cannot Cubase handle this?

There is absolutely no excuse for users to defend Steinberg about not implementing this feature. There are always studios that use old displays, but 4k is standard in 2020, has been for many years now. It has to work, otherwise the software is obsolete. Why look at low resolution representation of the DAW, when you could have crisp graphics, like most other software? Cubase 10 was advertised having a new graphics engine with hidpi!

To me it sounds like Steinberg is doing these final updates with minimal effort, just to sell a few more licenses, before they stop supporting the software. Maybe it is not a high priority at Yamaha? I have never been as disappointed about any purchase. Money totally wasted.
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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by jimknopf »

matthewmooremusic wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 1:48 pm
Blumentopferd wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:52 pm
matthewmooremusic wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:48 pm
But if you do that then you can't use windows scaling....
Exactly. Because Windows 10 scaling is broken.
It is, but without it, many users are struggling to deal with Cubase's small fonts and icons on 4k displays!
Exactly.
It is completely up to Steinberg to fix this.

The proposed solution does not work well here. As it is now, I either have to use Windows scaling (like 125%), with bad proportions and display failures of plugins in Cubase, or I use native resolution and have no proper, well readable font display. And even if I try some font tricks, I run into other display problems (like fonts becoming too big for proper working of popup windows). The present Steinberg UI is utterly half-baked: simple as that. It has to become more flexible, or it simply doesn't work as it should!

A well visible display is an utterly basic key experience when working with Cubase, and I'm really annoyed to see the failure of fixing this again and again, since MUCH too long now!

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by valkolton »

This fatal flaw has persisted for 19 months, been discussed in 1100+ posts on these forums + Gearslutz and even pointed out as a major con in magazine reviews.

Matthias Quellmann posted a survey about HiDPI December 2019, so they obviously must be fixing it this major issue but why so long?:

viewtopic.php?f=283&t=175848

I find it ridiculous that they also say that "If you rely working with video, disable HiDPI in Cubase." at https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... Windows-10 ; when they advertise it for pro video/game studio use and all video/games are 4k 60-120+fps and even 8k in 2020!

It is absolutely agonizing to see that this tragic GUI bug on their flagship products Cubase+Nuendo is a lower priority than other minor fixes and new releases of their many non-DAW niche products since November 2018.

Surely Steinberg's team must use their own product on a 4K Windows machine vs Mac to realize the severity of this issue themselves... As a programmer, I know this is not a difficult fix and they can just follow what Ableton/Bitwig/Studio One have implemented quickly.

Does anybody know Senior Management at Steinberg to raise this issue that has been alienating and infuriating many customers for 1.5+ years? :x

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Re: Cubase 10.5 HiDPI on Windows 10

Post by caustix »

Yea, we deserve a fix ASAP. This is silly. I have considered Studio One, have been for a while, I don't care what I use as long as it's solid.

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