add offset to video track

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sylvainmoreau
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add offset to video track

Post by sylvainmoreau »

Hi,

since Nuendo 10 my video is delayed by 4 frames. A real nightmare.
in nuendo 6 / 7 / 8 i never had this problem. what i would see would match what i would export and watch later on any player.
since 10 i need to put video at minus 4 frame to make sure that once exported my sound to the video editor i will see the same sync.
so what i do since 10 i manually move my video 4frame to the left on one video track, and leave the second video track at 00.i use one track to PLAY on track to sync sounds on still images... .. really really dangerous setup. because sometime you work on the wrong video track.

why
a/ isn't this fixed (again 6/7/8 was ok so not my setup)
b/ don't you add an offset setting on each video track to compensate. offset is active on play, inactive on stop.
nuendo 10.2.10 / rme fireface 802 / rme Fireface UC/ W10x64 / 16ram / i7 2600k / P67A-UD3P-B3 / AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series

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Fredo
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Re: add offset to video track

Post by Fredo »

1. If you are using a videocard like Blackmagic, then there is a checkbox to compensate for the latency.
2. If you are using the fixed videoplayer, then the delay occurs when you are using (too) heavily compressed video.

There are many threats which explain why an mp4 never can be frame accurate.
There are only 3 codecs which guarantee frame-correct playback: Dndx, ProRes and Photo Jpeg.
And in addition to that, the video track can never-ever be used as "correct" guide track, simply because it never is and never can't be.

Fredo

Niekbeem
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Re: add offset to video track

Post by Niekbeem »

If you are using a videocard like Blackmagic, then there is a checkbox to compensate for the latency.
True; the checkbox is there, but the not-so-clever-thing of this offset-parameter is that it only works in a positive offset.
Since the video cards like the Blackmagic ones need 1,5 ~ 2 frames to render their signal (on my system), the offset should be negative.
I do understand though that a DAW can't play a video-signal earlier than its data reaches the CPU, but then this offset-feature should create a delay for the audio-engine in order to get the video and audio in sync.

On my system, I have to put the start position of the videotrack 2 frames before the start position of the actual project, in order to have it all in sync.

This negative-offset-feature would come in very handy I think.

Niek/ Amsterdam.
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Fredo
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Re: add offset to video track

Post by Fredo »

Niekbeem wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:02 am
True; the checkbox is there, but the not-so-clever-thing of this offset-parameter is that it only works in a positive offset.
That is not correct.

From the manual:

Offset
If the video image does not match the audio, you can enter an offset value in milliseconds to specify how much earlier the video should be delivered. This compensates for the display delay. The offset is only used during playback. It is saved globally for each output device and is independent of the project.


HTH
Fredo

sylvainmoreau
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Re: add offset to video track

Post by sylvainmoreau »

Fredo wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:43 pm
There are only 3 codecs which guarantee frame-correct playback: Dndx, ProRes and Photo Jpeg.
Fredo
ok thanks. i had this problem already and i bought the DNxHD decoder... i asked for Dndx but don't remember the outcome. Not sure it solved my problem really.. i'll give it a second shot. And again. i didn't experience that with previous nuendo .. that's a bit strange no ?
nuendo 10.2.10 / rme fireface 802 / rme Fireface UC/ W10x64 / 16ram / i7 2600k / P67A-UD3P-B3 / AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series

sylvainmoreau
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Re: add offset to video track

Post by sylvainmoreau »

i just did a test with a 1mln20 video
.mp4 480p (20meg)
.mov HDnX 36 (300meg)
and it's the same. i have 4 frame offset on any video i use.
so if i put my video at tc00:00:00 when i play video in nuendo i'm bothered because sound comes to early.
So i put video at -1 23:59:59:21 and playback is correct.
but if i want to export video from nuendo i need to drag back that video file to TC00:00:00
This way after export VLC plays the video and sound correctly .
so offset button is still the best option for me until someone tells me how to fix this.

---edit
or a vst that would delay my sound 4 frame on the master ?
that's a but silly but i would like to work without that thing going on and the risk of making something wrong.
ps. at the time i tested that with an empty session with only one video track and one audio bip. and it's the same. nothing to do with how heavy is the session.
nuendo 10.2.10 / rme fireface 802 / rme Fireface UC/ W10x64 / 16ram / i7 2600k / P67A-UD3P-B3 / AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series

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Fredo
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Re: add offset to video track

Post by Fredo »

Wait.
You have to "calibrate" your system and find out where the problem is.
It probably isn't your system.

Because if the audio & video were exported incorrectly, or with a crappy codec/on a crappy machine / by a crappy operator (pick one or multiple) and you don't have a White Frame + 2pop, **then you can't possibly know what the correct sync is**.

In normal conditions, the onboard video player should be correct.
When using a Blackmagic card of the likes, you need to compensate for that card + the TV-screen.


To test your system you need two things.
1. A leader tape of some kind where you have a clear 1 frame white flash.
(Import the video in Nuendo and place a 1 frame 1kHz precisely where the White frame in the video is.
2, A device that can measure the the offset (in playback) between the video White Frame Flash and the audio 2pop.

Catcin' Sync might not be the most accurate device in the world, it is the cheapest and best solution, and it will you a perfect result.
https://quietart.co.nz/catchinsync/
On the site, you can download test files and a tutorial.
Once you have done that, and calibrated your system, you will be 100% sure that any problems you bump into have occurred during creation of the video.


HTH
Fredo

sylvainmoreau
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Re: add offset to video track

Post by sylvainmoreau »

ok... thx

not for today i guess:p

"An Android version is not available yet.
However, if you sign up below we will notify you when it is available."
:arrow:

when i receive a test with 2pop i can see the sync is a problem on my nuendo.
i always have to move the movie 4fr to get the 2pop ok when playback./so i always have that difference between stop and play.
you talk about black magic VC. wich product is that. should i get that to solve problem?
nuendo 10.2.10 / rme fireface 802 / rme Fireface UC/ W10x64 / 16ram / i7 2600k / P67A-UD3P-B3 / AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series

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Re: add offset to video track

Post by Niekbeem »

Niekbeem wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:02 am
the not-so-clever-thing of this offset-parameter is that it only works in a positive offset.
Fredo wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:01 am
That is not correct.
From the manual:
Offset:
you can enter an offset value in milliseconds to specify how much earlier the video should be delivered.......
I should take a good look at myself now and honestly say: now THAT was not-so-clever of me to say before reading that part of the manual.... :oops:
Thanks for the eye-opener! A very welcome feature!

Niek/Amsterdam.
Nuendo 10 / Pro Tools Ultimate / Logic X / MixBus32C 5 / WaveLab 10
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Fredo
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Re: add offset to video track

Post by Fredo »

Niekbeem wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:41 pm

I should take a good look at myself now and honestly say: now THAT was not-so-clever of me to say before reading that part of the manual.... :oops:
Thanks for the eye-opener! A very welcome feature!

Niek/Amsterdam.
Come on. Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes.
I myself am an expert in making a fool outta myself. :)

Fredo

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Fredo
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Re: add offset to video track

Post by Fredo »

sylvainmoreau wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:04 pm
i always have to move the movie 4fr to get the 2pop ok when playback./so i always have that difference between stop and play.
you talk about black magic VC. wich product is that. should i get that to solve problem?
I think you first need to identify the problem on your machine.
Download one of those Catcin' Sync testfiles and start working with that.
At least you will start your troubleshooting with a proper 100% issue-free test file.
(Pretty much all files/projects that I received from Final Cut have an offset of 2 frames, so even with 2pop, it might be the video operator/application that is at fault.)

If you are running video on a separate monitor (full screen), then very possibly it is that screen/monitor and or the split box/adapter/whatever that causes the problem. So try to figure out what is happening where and when, and go from there.

Fredo

ErikG
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Re: add offset to video track

Post by ErikG »

What Fredo said.
FYI with my BMD card and Sony TV screen I am at 200ms with ProRes (slow screen).
NOTE not all video encoders and decoders are the same latency wise on decode, so offset may differ betweeen video formats.
And CatchinSync is what I use whenever I get worried. It is definetly good enough, and yes You will need an iphone or puchase a hardware synccheck, not sure if any are still in production though.
I find CathcinSync at least as good as my old synccheck and easier to work with.
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sylvainmoreau
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Re: add offset to video track

Post by sylvainmoreau »

i just realised there's an offset option in video player setup :p https://steinberg.help/nuendo/v8/en/cub ... tup_r.html
so any settings here plays the video earlier by that amount ? (can't test it right now) if yes it's exactly what i'm looking for.

by the way. when i import movies from any editor premiere or avid in h264 or DNx (both formats i use) the 2pop audio is always 1frame later then the video display. it became a routine to offset all audios i import from videos by 1 frame. yesterday i asked a guy in charge of calibration (not sure english term for that) for the movie i work on to confirm his 2pop video and audio are aligned and they are.
... why do i get that error in nuendo ? do you guys have this ?
nuendo 10.2.10 / rme fireface 802 / rme Fireface UC/ W10x64 / 16ram / i7 2600k / P67A-UD3P-B3 / AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series

ErikG
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Re: add offset to video track

Post by ErikG »

Different codecs have different offsets, as does different TVs and computer screens and video capture/display cards...
It’s just a fact of life that you have to get used to.

If you have an iPhone with a decent hi speed camera I suggest using the app CatchinSync to check and verify sync offsets.
Filmlance, a Swedish production company producing drama and feature films.
13xNuendo, (5xPT Only used for external clients)
Dubstage with 4k Christie projection
8xMedia Composer, VFX, online, grading and more

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