VCA BUG?

As much as I dislike that there are still problems with it, they’re still work-around-able by placing an automation point at the beginning of the tracks. At least based on what I saw last.

So they’re usable with that caveat.

True, but that requires defining the word “We”, doesn’t it? :smiley:

The workaround is about as annoying as the bug itself

Depends on how you look at it.
To me, creating initial parameters is mandatory for starting any project.
This is the only way you can guarantee that -after closing and reopening- your project plays back the way it is intended.

Fredo

If creating those initial parameters is mandatory to guaranteeing a project plays back correctly on reopening, I’m surprised Steiny haven’t created a function that adds those parameters automatically on VCA tracks when automation for that track is enabled.

It would also be great if they could enable the use of the mute function on VCA’s. Mute is already enabled for VCA’s in Cubase.

Because it is impossible, unless you create initial parameters.
In a fairly simple project, you are probably more or less safe, but not with a complicated Post-project with tons of automation.

Say, you insert a third party plugin in a track.
No need for automation.
Project done and archived.
Plugin gets an update.
You reopen the project with that updated plugin.
What are the chances that the plugin snaps to the same preset and/or parameters you have initially dialed in?

Open a project which has no automation written.
Accidently (or intentional) you move a fader or a parameter.
How can you know?

Write plugin automation halfway the project (nothing at the start)
Close your project when your cursor is over halfway.
Reopen.
Go to the the start of your project without playing back the project. Just open and go to start.
Press Play: There is a fair chance that your plugin will remember it’s last settings, and not the settings it needs to snap to at the beginning of your project.


Etc … etc …

The only way to guarantee that your project always plays back, just the way you inteded it, is by writing automation parameters from the very start.

Fredo

Thanks Fredo, very fair point.

I agree with everything Fredo said.

I’m not seeing the connection between 3rd party plugin parameters being retained vs, VCA faders that are 1st party integrated based components of the DAW. Typically, there’s a period of time in a project where faders and plugin parameters aren’t committed and are free so it’s simply a nuisance to be starting off with these automation anchored points.

It needs to be fixed, I love Cubendo far above all the other DAWS, but this is just an embarrassing mistake(s).

Maybe the workaround works fine for people in post doing dialogue and library sound effects because things are already level optimized and flattened, so having VCAs and everything anchored at 0 isn’t a big deal…

I was answering to the question why everybody should write initial parameters at the start of every project.
When you do that, the VCA functions will work properly.

1 click. One click only to write initial parameters.
What the hell is the problem?

Fredo

Where do I click?

Automation panel/functions: Create initial parameters.

Fredo

Fredo, if I were you, I would frame that!

Initial parameters might work for post but it doesn’t work so well with music. Pro Tools gets VCAs right and doesn’t require you to “lock” your fader positions with initial parameters. However you look at it they are broken, buggy, and have been since their introduction.

If I may, let me respond to that as primarily a music producer.

I don’t use a ton of automation. I use a lot of clip gain, a lot of group bussing with compression that creates its own type of pre mixing and various other means and methods in my workflow of achieving what I’m looking for in the Final Mix.

Consequently, I don’t begin the whole automation process at a single point in time. I engage automation 1 channel or a few channels at a time as needed and only use automation on probably a third of my tracks. In the meantime I need to be able to freely move any other channel anywhere I want in a mystical, musical workflow creative process which means without automation. Finding initial balances is an ongoing process in this case.

At no point do I want to write initial parameters for the whole project. So what would be involved is an additional step every time I engage automation on a channel. Not unlivable, however it’s just one more fiddly thing I’d rather not deal with when I’m in that headspace. I’m not trying to be picky it’s just that when I’m in the moment mixing a hit pop song I am in a creative mode no different than when I’m hyper focused on giving an instrumental performance on a bass or keyboard or whatever. I guess that’s very different than post and dialogue and all the other stuff I don’t do.

So, not a deal-breaker. But also not desirable as a requirement to work on the world’s finest DAW. How would making that process properly self-managed for us end users at some point over the several years it has been complained about be a negative?

All my reasons to use inital parameters still hold up.

Fredo

Already done.
4meter by 2meter hanging in the green room of our facilities.

Fredo

lol…

(we probably agree faaar more often than not)

Too be honest, I don’t really get it. Why do I want to start my project with anchored automation points when I want to be working with faders freely?

You said something about plugin updates breaking or invalidating connections to automation, but does this even happen? Sounds like a paranoid precaution. Any time I have had a plugin update break backwards compatibility I’m pretty sure the plugin wouldn’t even load/plugin not found anyways.

Not sure you’re understanding that not everyone uses VCAs in the same way. I appreciate the workaround you’re giving, but it really does not lessen the annoyance of this issue. Essentially with your method of having an automation point, would require me to thereafter, always be writing or drawing automation?

I once accidently engaged initial parameters on a complex music project. It was a PITA. I couldn’t make any changes without writing automation and I ended up having to manually remove every automation node except the ones I previously created in order to continue. I can see how it could be a great feature for some situations but usually not for me. I would love to see the VCA bugs fixed.