MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

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thomas_f
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MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by thomas_f »

I spent quite a bit of time arranging my rather large template into different visibility configurations using this feature, only to find that if I later add a track, then that track is visible in all configurations, and I have to remove it from all other configurations than the one I want it in and re-update all of them. This can not be the intention, since it completely defeats its purpose. Unless of course Steinberg thought that this feature should only be used on completely finished projects?

Recreate:
  • 1. Create a new project
  • 2. Add two or more tracks, let's say instrument tracks
  • 3. Open up your MixConsole
  • 4. Add at least one configuration
  • 5. Assign one or more tracks to each configuration using the Visibility tab in the left zone, then save/update your configuration.
  • 6. Repeat step 5 until you have at least one track in all of your configurations
  • 7. Add another track and name it "Bug"
  • 8. Confirm that "Bug" is now visible in all configurations
OS: Windows 10
Version: Cubase Pro 9.5.50

Martin.Jirsak
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Re: MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,

Visibility is expected like this. In theory, you have 3 options when adding a new track after the configurations were created in the project:
A) Show the track in all configurations.
B) Hide the track in all configurations.
C) Bother the user by defining if this track should be visible/hidden in every single one configuration.
D) Bring an AI to decide if the track should / or not be visible in every single configuration.

To me A seems to be to best solution, the least risky (I don't want to add a track, which would become hidden immediately) and the least bothering me.
Martin Jirsak
How to show notes of the chord/scale only
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thomas_f
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Re: MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by thomas_f »

Hi,

E) Have a default configuration/view that shows everything, much like it works now, but Cubase should store it as a proper configuration (possibly write protected from the user) that you can recall. All tracks are visible anyway in the left visibility zone page, so you can always find any track, even if you do something stupid like locking it out from every configuration.

I still fail to see how this can be the expected behavior. I know you're not working for Steinberg, but perhaps you have a deeper understanding than I have. If you have time and will, can you explain how and in what scenarios this behavior would be useful? To me, this behavior defeats the very purpose of the feature. Surely you can agree that from a usability standpoint this is terrible?

Let's say I have created four configurations:
  • 1. Strings
  • 2. Brass
  • 3. Percussion
  • 4. Woodwinds
Later on I decide to add another brass instrument. Now, why would I want a brass track in my "Percussion" view, or in any of my views other than "Brass" for that matter? The intention of this feature, if we are to believe Steinberg, is to be able to organize/filter your tracks into different views so you can quickly find what you're looking for. The only scenario in which I can see this being useful is in a large mixing project with a lot of tracks, with an absolute zero chance of ever adding a track of any kind.

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Re: MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,
thomas_f wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:08 pm
E) Have a default configuration/view that shows everything, much like it works now, but Cubase should store it as a proper configuration (possibly write protected from the user) that you can recall. All tracks are visible anyway in the left visibility zone page, so you can always find any track, even if you do something stupid like locking it out from every configuration.
OK, the default configuration is clear. And then the other configurations? Would you show or hide the newly created track?

Does it mean, you would create a new track, and the one would become hidden immediately (if you wouldn't be in the default configuration)? So you would need to show it always to be able to start to work with the track?
Martin Jirsak
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thomas_f
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Re: MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by thomas_f »

If I add a new track while in one of my own configurations, then yes, the track would and should be hidden from view. After all, I chose to be in that configuration so I would not expect that newly created track to show up there, why would I? Instead, I would look up the track in the visibility list, select the appropriate configuration(s) and add it accordingly or just access it from the default configuration (if that existed).

Let me ask you this. Let's say you have a fairly large project with 100+ tracks and 10-15 different configurations. Now, would you rather:

A) Add a track, then assign it to whatever configuration(s) you want, with the cost of having to look it up in the channel visibility list first?

B) Add a track, then iterate over your configurations and remove it from all but the one(s) to which it belongs?

Which one of these would be the most time consuming and detrimental to workflow?

thomas_f
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Re: MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by thomas_f »

thomas_f wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:08 pm
I know you're not working for Steinberg...
I suppose I have to revise this. I assumed that Steinberg employees would have their name in a different color.

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Re: MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,
thomas_f wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:05 pm
If I add a new track while in one of my own configurations, then yes, the track would and should be hidden from view.
This is exactly opposite mindset from Steinberg's POs. You can have the default setup that the track is hidden and you pick the track you want to make visible (which is your mindset). Or you can have the default setup that the track is always visible and you pick the track you want to hide (which is Steinberg mindset).

I can totally understand both point of view. If I would choose only one of it, I would go for the Steinberg way. I can't imagine to create a track, which would become hidden immediately. I can't see all of my tracks in the Visibility list. I have too many tracks. So it might happen, I would create several tracks by accident, just because nothing wouldn't appear after creating track. The Steinberg way also support WYSIWYG. If the default would be to hide it, you would add invisible track, so you wouldn't see what you get (a new track).
thomas_f wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:05 pm
Let me ask you this. Let's say you have a fairly large project with 100+ tracks and 10-15 different configurations. Now, would you rather:
My template project has 1.200 tracks.
thomas_f wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:05 pm
A) Add a track, then assign it to whatever configuration(s) you want, with the cost of having to look it up in the channel visibility list first?
Sorry, when I add a track, I want to record. Not to make a settings, assignment to the configurations and thinking about a system, just to make sure the tracks doesn't hide immediately. No. I add a track and record, because I have a music idea.
thomas_f wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:05 pm
Which one of these would be the most time consuming and detrimental to workflow?
I'm using project template(s), so the system (and management of the tracks) has been done while creating the template(s). When I add another track, first I want to make a music. Later on, if the idea is recorded, I can take care about the track management.

Sorry, for me the Steinberg way is really the only one logical.
Martin Jirsak
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thomas_f
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Re: MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by thomas_f »

Hi,

Alright, fair enough. Now I understand Steinbergs logic a bit better. I do agree that scrolling through a list if 1200 tracks in the visibility tab would certainly be cumbersome. However, I am talking about the MixConsole channel visibility, not the project window track counterpart. They do maintain their own separate list of user configurations, no? So unless I sync the two and only use the visibility features in the MixConsole, newly added tracks should be immediately visible in the project window, where we create our music, correct?

Thank you for your input thus far, by the way.

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Re: MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

thomas_f wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:45 pm
So unless I sync the two and only use the visibility features in the MixConsole, newly added tracks should be immediately visible in the project window, where we create our music, correct?
Correct
Martin Jirsak
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thomas_f
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Re: MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by thomas_f »

Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:12 am
Correct
Right, so my option A would not obstruct the creative process, since I add a track and record in the project window (unless I choose to do that from the MixConsole, but really, that seems unusual). Again, if I'm in the mixer it is sort of given that I want to make adjustments, set something up or get a decent overview (in this case with the help of different views) of what's happening in the mix.

But, I suppose I have to come to terms with the fact that Steinberg chose what in their mind was the lesser of evils, since they have to consider many different use cases, even though this particular use case got the short straw, which in all honesty I find rather odd since it seems that it is quite common and obvious (from what I've read both in this forum and in other places). So I wish they would have found a clever way around the problems.

Anyway, I'll just add some buffer tracks to my template, add them to the appropriate configuration and hope I don't have to add new tracks that often after that. Thanks for your input and point of view.

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Re: MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by toaster14me »

Thomas your so right... and why anyone would argue that you've not got a fair point is beyond me...
So I've just started working with 10.5 having come from older versions...
I'm trying to set up the 3 different mix consoles(accessed via kshorts) which basically have.. For arguments sake..
Mix console 1 showing all my audio tracks & master fader
Mix 2 showing all midi/vst instrument tracks & master fader
Mix 3 showing all group tracks and master fader

Exact configuration doesn't really matter... And I've now realised I could just use mix console 1 with the configuration tabs, saving all manner of setups. With (having read somewhere) the ability to add kshorts to them... And recall them as needed..
But whichever way I wanted to go about this concept of setting up visibility options...
I'm running into the same problem every time I add a new track it kinda dumps it on all views.. puts a spanner in all the time spent filtering out 'visibility sets' .. For want of a better description..
Did you ever manage to find a work around or has this been updated/changed and I'm just missing something..
Realise this post is pretty old...

Thx in advance to anyone that can help...

thomas_f
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Re: MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by thomas_f »

toaster14me wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:43 pm
Thomas your so right... and why anyone would argue that you've not got a fair point is beyond me...
So I've just started working with 10.5 having come from older versions...
I'm trying to set up the 3 different mix consoles(accessed via kshorts) which basically have.. For arguments sake..
Mix console 1 showing all my audio tracks & master fader
Mix 2 showing all midi/vst instrument tracks & master fader
Mix 3 showing all group tracks and master fader

Exact configuration doesn't really matter... And I've now realised I could just use mix console 1 with the configuration tabs, saving all manner of setups. With (having read somewhere) the ability to add kshorts to them... And recall them as needed..
But whichever way I wanted to go about this concept of setting up visibility options...
I'm running into the same problem every time I add a new track it kinda dumps it on all views.. puts a spanner in all the time spent filtering out 'visibility sets' .. For want of a better description..
Did you ever manage to find a work around or has this been updated/changed and I'm just missing something..
Realise this post is pretty old...

Thx in advance to anyone that can help...
Hi,

No I haven't found a workaround, I pretty much gave up on this. Best of luck to you though, I hope you'll find a way that is less annoying.

Michael Rush
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Re: MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by Michael Rush »

I know this is an old post and is not a feature in Cubase but if there are any Cubase mods around, this is by far my BIGGEST NIGHTMARE when working with configurations. I came here searching for a solution to this exact problem.

I have about 10 different configurations, controlling mix sub groups, returns from a slave machine, and 1000 tracks. It's a complete nightmare to have to update every single configuration every time I add a reference track or another instrument. It's probably wasted hours of my time that I could otherwise be using productively.

This could EASILY be solved to everyone's satisfaction with a little icon to lock the configuration once set.

Martin.Jirsak
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Re: MixConsole Channel Visibility Configuration not working as intended

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,

Do I understand you right, guys, you would prefer to make the track visible only at the Configuration, where you add the track in, right? What would happen, if you would add a track in the Project window?

Or you would expect some kind of "Lock Configuration" button. So you could "lock" the configuration as it is and no other channels would become present in the Configuration anymore (until you would do it manually and lock it again)?
Martin Jirsak
How to show notes of the chord/scale only
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