Halion Symphonic audio level is low

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atmuc
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Halion Symphonic audio level is low

Post by atmuc »

I have Cubase Pro 9 and Halion 6. Symp sounds is very low related to others. i have to decrease "Dynamic Range" on quick controls for each symp instrument. is it normal?

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Re: Halion Symphonic audio level is low

Post by Romantique Tp »

Like other orchestral libraries, the dynamics in Halion Symphonic Orchestra are controlled by the modulation controller (mod wheel/CC01) by default. It's possible to make the instruments respond to note velocity instead if your MIDI controller doesn't have a mod wheel.

A few presets in the Halion and Halion Sonic libraries also use the mod wheel for dynamics or other effects. These usually have "MW" in their name.
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atmuc
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Re: Halion Symphonic audio level is low

Post by atmuc »

as i remember it was fine when it is released. is there any way to set all halion symp instrument's dynamic range to a fixed value?

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C.LYDE101
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Re: Halion Symphonic audio level is low

Post by C.LYDE101 »

Not easily - and would not be worth the effort.
As soon as you start to appreciate why it was done like that in the 1st place - dynamic control is essential for realistic mock-up.
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Re: Halion Symphonic audio level is low

Post by Dann_Gtr »

Hi, not sure if I can continue posting in this thread but...

I am having issues with this exact topic in HALion Sonic SE that don't know how to solve. I'm using HALion Symphonic Orchestra and I use my MIDI Controller's Mod wheel to control "level" of the instruments. However, when I save the project, close Cubase 10 and re-open it, all the mod-wheel values for all the HALion Symphonic Orchestra tracks are at zero (0) again. I don't know how to make HALion Sonic SE or Cubase to save the mod-wheel levels just as I leave them before closing the session.

Is there a way to do so or something I'm missing :?:

Thank you so much in advance. :D
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Brian Roland
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Re: Halion Symphonic audio level is low

Post by Brian Roland »

Dann_Gtr wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 5:22 pm
Hi, not sure if I can continue posting in this thread but...

I am having issues with this exact topic in HALion Sonic SE that don't know how to solve. I'm using HALion Symphonic Orchestra and I use my MIDI Controller's Mod wheel to control "level" of the instruments. However, when I save the project, close Cubase 10 and re-open it, all the mod-wheel values for all the HALion Symphonic Orchestra tracks are at zero (0) again. I don't know how to make HALion Sonic SE or Cubase to save the mod-wheel levels just as I leave them before closing the session.

Is there a way to do so or something I'm missing :?:

Thank you so much in advance. :D
Either insert a CC1 event at the level you want at the beginning of the track (you could do this in a VST lane for CC1, or in a controller lane in the Keyboard MIDI editor), or experiment with options for resetting/chasing controllers in the Cubase MIDI settings.

Somewhere in the Cubase settings are options for working with the transport. I think by default stopping the transport sends a group of controller resets, which essentially 'stops all sounding notes', then 'zeros the modulation wheel, pitch bend, etc.'. Seems like there is even a single general MIDI cc that'll do all that in one go if the instrument understands the cc and is set to allow it.

There are also options for having the various editor chase controllers as you scroll about in the score/tracks and interact with things.

Find that stuff and experiment.

Another thing worth considering, is to assign dynamic control to CC11 instead of CC1. It's handled a little differently in terms of 'resetting controllers' I 'think'. I.E. It's pretty common to want a modulation wheel zeroed for a fresh start anytime we stop the transport. No so much for expression volume....resetting that controller, a value of something like 64 would make more sense in terms of the way the 'General MIDI' reset controllers protocols were designed?

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Re: Halion Symphonic audio level is low

Post by Dann_Gtr »

Brian Roland wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 2:37 pm
Dann_Gtr wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 5:22 pm
Hi, not sure if I can continue posting in this thread but...

I am having issues with this exact topic in HALion Sonic SE that don't know how to solve. I'm using HALion Symphonic Orchestra and I use my MIDI Controller's Mod wheel to control "level" of the instruments. However, when I save the project, close Cubase 10 and re-open it, all the mod-wheel values for all the HALion Symphonic Orchestra tracks are at zero (0) again. I don't know how to make HALion Sonic SE or Cubase to save the mod-wheel levels just as I leave them before closing the session.

Is there a way to do so or something I'm missing :?:

Thank you so much in advance. :D
Either insert a CC1 event at the level you want at the beginning of the track (you could do this in a VST lane for CC1, or in a controller lane in the Keyboard MIDI editor), or experiment with options for resetting/chasing controllers in the Cubase MIDI settings.

Somewhere in the Cubase settings are options for working with the transport. I think by default stopping the transport sends a group of controller resets, which essentially 'stops all sounding notes', then 'zeros the modulation wheel, pitch bend, etc.'. Seems like there is even a single general MIDI cc that'll do all that in one go if the instrument understands the cc and is set to allow it.

There are also options for having the various editor chase controllers as you scroll about in the score/tracks and interact with things.

Find that stuff and experiment.

Another thing worth considering, is to assign dynamic control to CC11 instead of CC1. It's handled a little differently in terms of 'resetting controllers' I 'think'. I.E. It's pretty common to want a modulation wheel zeroed for a fresh start anytime we stop the transport. No so much for expression volume....resetting that controller, a value of something like 64 would make more sense in terms of the way the 'General MIDI' reset controllers protocols were designed?
Thanks a lot Brian! I will definitely try to assign dynamic control to CC11, never thought about that. If it does not work or I don't feel confortable working that way, definitely I'll better insert a CC1 event at the beginning of the track (of course the easiest option).

Thanks a lot once again!
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Re: Halion Symphonic audio level is low

Post by Brian Roland »

Another quick tip....how I deal with these expressive orchestral libraries that use CC1 or CC11 for dynamics.

I like to use a simple logic editor, and copy the note number over to a fresh CC with the same value for each note.

Result...as notes get higher, they get a little louder, and as they go lower, they get a little softer.

That's a good 'starting place', from which I'll catch and drag the dynamics of entire phrases in the key editor from there as needed.

Here's what my logic editor looks like:

Image

Example results after selecting all the notes/events in a track and applying it:

Image

Note, you could instead translate the velocity of the notes into CC1 events if you'd rather do that.
Or, insert a static value, or even totally random ones!

Point here being, experiment and practice with MIDI Logical Editors....
They make it really easy, and FAST, to manipulate many MIDI events in massive batches. Edits that could take you hours to make one note at a time, or even by grouping and grabbing with the mouse in the key-editor, can be done in just a few clicks with these logical editors.

It's big time worth taking a little time to experiment with the Logical Editors. HUGE TIME SAVER, that allows you to try out more creative ideas than you thought possible before (due to time constraints).

Dann_Gtr
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Re: Halion Symphonic audio level is low

Post by Dann_Gtr »

Brian Roland wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:49 pm
Another quick tip....how I deal with these expressive orchestral libraries that use CC1 or CC11 for dynamics.

I like to use a simple logic editor, and copy the note number over to a fresh CC with the same value for each note.

Result...as notes get higher, they get a little louder, and as they go lower, they get a little softer.

That's a good 'starting place', from which I'll catch and drag the dynamics of entire phrases in the key editor from there as needed.

Here's what my logic editor looks like:

Image

Example results after selecting all the notes/events in a track and applying it:

Image

Note, you could instead translate the velocity of the notes into CC1 events if you'd rather do that.
Or, insert a static value, or even totally random ones!

Point here being, experiment and practice with MIDI Logical Editors....
They make it really easy, and FAST, to manipulate many MIDI events in massive batches. Edits that could take you hours to make one note at a time, or even by grouping and grabbing with the mouse in the key-editor, can be done in just a few clicks with these logical editors.

It's big time worth taking a little time to experiment with the Logical Editors. HUGE TIME SAVER, that allows you to try out more creative ideas than you thought possible before (due to time constraints).
Thanks a lot Brian, I will definitely check the logical editor. I've never used it and I think it's not so easy to understand, but I've seen that it's a powerful feature, I'll surely invest some time on it.
  • Producer | Mixing & Recording Engineer | Guitar Player | Composer & Arranger | Music Transcriber |
  • Song of Solomon Records
  • Cubase Pro 10 | MacOS Mojave 10.14.16 | Mac Mini (Late 2012) | Behringer U-PHORIA UMC404HD |

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