Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

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toader
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Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by toader »

I have a feature request (this may have already been suggested... not sure).

I want to be able to use plugins while monitoring the master section input live, and then I want to instantly be able to switch to standard playback so I can compare the track I'm currently mastering (the live input) with tracks already recorded into the montage. The problem, is when I hit play to hear the already recorded tracks, the master section plugins are still active... so I have to manually disable the plugins. To manually disable is a slow process so it hinders quick easy A/B comparison.

I'm not sure the best solution... Maybe

1) Each slot in the master section could have a button to "enable only while input monitoring is on" (so when I disable input monitoring, the plugin will no longer be active.

OR

2) Maybe Wavelab could have a dedicated input effects rack? So these effects would only be active during live input monitoring... and then when I'm finished mastering, I would drag the input effects into the clip effect inspector for the newly recorded clip...

Thanks,
Todd
Computer 1: Cubase 10.5.12, RME HDSPe AES (x2), RME HDSPe AIO (x1), Nvidia NVS 510 video card, Dell T7500 workstation with Intel Xeon X5690 (6 cores with hyperthreading) 3.47gHz, 24GB RAM, UAD-2 Quad, Windows 10 64-bit
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Re: Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by PG »

Did you try without using the Master Section? The new reference track concept in the montage 10.0, associated with the montage track input monitoring, should match your workflow (if I followed you correctly).
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Re: Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by toader »

The reference track thing works really great with a dedicated reference track, and using the master section for effects... I do use this also... BUT:

I also like to jump around between all of the various songs in a montage and use them as references too... this is where I struggle a little, because I need somewhere to load effects I can monitor through in realtime. Isn’t the master section in the only place to do that?

My workflow is this: I monitor in Wavelab in real-time using the meters, and real-time effects via master section live input (love this feature). When I’m happy with the track, I record it into into Wavelab, and then I copy all of the master section effects I was using in real-time into the newly recorded clip... then I repeat the process for the next song. While doing this, if I want to compare levels with other tracks in my montage, I turn off master section input monitoring, bypass all of the effects in the Mastering section, and move the cursor to whatever song I want to hear and hit play. it works great for A/B and overall level, etc. it’s just a little slow, hence the reason for this thread...

I think it would be awesome, if playback could continue in the background even while live input is active, so I could instantly switch back-and-forth with zero delay... but I don’t mind hitting play when I need to for now.
Computer 1: Cubase 10.5.12, RME HDSPe AES (x2), RME HDSPe AIO (x1), Nvidia NVS 510 video card, Dell T7500 workstation with Intel Xeon X5690 (6 cores with hyperthreading) 3.47gHz, 24GB RAM, UAD-2 Quad, Windows 10 64-bit
Computer 2: Wavelab 10.0.30, RME HDSPe AIO, AMD Radeon RX 480 video, Dell XPS 8720 with Intel I7-7700 CPU (4 cores with hyperthreading) 3.6gHz, 24GB RAM, Windows 10 64-bit

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Re: Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by PG »

Isn’t the master section in the only place to do that?
You can also use montage track effects and use the monitor button on that track.
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Re: Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by Justin P »

Is there a shortcut to toggle tine input monitor on/off?

This would be a big time saver in this scenario, or at least make the process smoother.
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Re: Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by toader »

PG wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:55 am
Isn’t the master section in the only place to do that?
You can also use montage track effects and use the monitor button on that track.
This gives me an idea then... so I could create two tracks. One track is just to monitor the live input and load my effects while mastering... And the other track is where I place the finished clips after I record them. That track would have no track effects, but only the clip effects after they have been finished. Then in order to switch back and forth, I would just use the solo button on either track... this just might work. I will try and report back soon!

Todd
Justin P wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:39 pm
Is there a shortcut to toggle tine input monitor on/off?

This would be a big time saver in this scenario, or at least make the process smoother.
Agreed, this would be cool... but in my case above, track monitoring would always be enabled on the live input track. In order to switch back-and-forth I would need to enable the solo button on one track or the other... so there would have to be a key command to enable solo on track one, and another key command to enable solo on track two, etc.
Computer 1: Cubase 10.5.12, RME HDSPe AES (x2), RME HDSPe AIO (x1), Nvidia NVS 510 video card, Dell T7500 workstation with Intel Xeon X5690 (6 cores with hyperthreading) 3.47gHz, 24GB RAM, UAD-2 Quad, Windows 10 64-bit
Computer 2: Wavelab 10.0.30, RME HDSPe AIO, AMD Radeon RX 480 video, Dell XPS 8720 with Intel I7-7700 CPU (4 cores with hyperthreading) 3.6gHz, 24GB RAM, Windows 10 64-bit

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Re: Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by matthewbarnhart »

toader wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:30 pm
This gives me an idea then... so I could create two tracks. One track is just to monitor the live input and load my effects while mastering... And the other track is where I place the finished clips after I record them. That track would have no track effects, but only the clip effects after they have been finished. Then in order to switch back and forth, I would just use the solo button on either track... this just might work. I will try and report back soon!
This is exactly my workflow, and it works well for me. My tracks are laid out as such:

1. Source (Ref track): unprocessed source that is sent to our analog loop via an extra physical output. I can also use the audition/solo button to hear this track through the main DAW outputs.

2. Process (regular track): records the output of our DAW loop. Use Track effects for extra processing. After recording, I copy/paste these effects to the newly-recorded clip, which I then move to...

3. Sequence (regular track): where I sequence the final album.

My final peak limiter is in a Montage Output effect, so I can monitor through it while processing.

I also have a second Ref track called "Compare" that is sent through a third set of DAW outputs to our monitor controller. I'll use this for songs I use as references as I'm working. As with the "Source" track, I can also use the audition/solo button to hear this through the main DAW outputs.

Per Justin's advice, I (almost) never use the Master Section for anything.

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Re: Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by toader »

toader wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:30 pm
PG wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:55 am
Isn’t the master section in the only place to do that?
You can also use montage track effects and use the monitor button on that track.
This gives me an idea then... so I could create two tracks. One track is just to monitor the live input and load my effects while mastering... And the other track is where I place the finished clips after I record them. That track would have no track effects, but only the clip effects after they have been finished. Then in order to switch back and forth, I would just use the solo button on either track... this just might work. I will try and report back soon!

Todd
PG, I just tried this, and it ALMOST works, but not quite. I'm using:

1) One stereo track with all of my previous recorded masters on it (for final CD prep, AND as a reference). Each clip has it's own clip FX.
AND
2) A 2nd stereo track with monitoring always enabled. This is monitoring live input for the song I'm currently mastering. It has track effects enabled, and this appears to work very well! :-)

If I try to use SOLO to change between the tracks, the monitor enable button on track 2 remains active even with track 1 in SOLO mode... and it's output is not muted. Because of this, I hear BOTH track 1, and the live input on track 2 simultaneously... but I need to hear either one or the other. Not both.

Can you make it so when a track is muted, it mutes ALL output for that track? - Even if input monitoring for that track is enabled? This way, when I select SOLO on track 1 (my reference), track 1 is all I hear. It doesn't make sense to still hear audio coming from a muted track - even if it's through the live track monitor input. Anyway - when I want to listen to live input again, I could click SOLO on track 2, and track monitor would still be enabled, and it just becomes audible (unmuted).

Thanks,
Todd

Alternatively, here's another idea too that may be helpful...

In the inspector, we have tabs for clip FX, track FX, and output FX. What if track FX was divided into two sections (one for standard track FX, and one for INPUT FX (monitor track FX)? That way, we could have FX that would only run on a selected track if the monitor input for that track is enabled... It would be helpful in this case to have an option for "copy track input FX to selected clip", and "copy track input FX to standard track FX".

If working this way, I would not need two separate stereo tracks. I could just enable/disable the track monitor button to instantly toggle between live input (with it's own input FX), and track playback of my already recorded reference tracks (with it's clip FX AND/or standard track FX).
Computer 1: Cubase 10.5.12, RME HDSPe AES (x2), RME HDSPe AIO (x1), Nvidia NVS 510 video card, Dell T7500 workstation with Intel Xeon X5690 (6 cores with hyperthreading) 3.47gHz, 24GB RAM, UAD-2 Quad, Windows 10 64-bit
Computer 2: Wavelab 10.0.30, RME HDSPe AIO, AMD Radeon RX 480 video, Dell XPS 8720 with Intel I7-7700 CPU (4 cores with hyperthreading) 3.6gHz, 24GB RAM, Windows 10 64-bit

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Re: Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by PG »

Can you make it so when a track is muted, it mutes ALL output for that track?
If the track with the monitor button is a reference track, and monitoring is engaged, then the track will be mutes (and monitoring, what you want), when you disable the "Listen" option.

Concerning the shortcut, see the tooltip of the related buttons.
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Re: Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by Justin P »

PG wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:03 pm
Concerning the shortcut, see the tooltip of the related buttons.
I don't really see anything about the shortcut to toggle input monitor on/off which would be handy during playback to compare an older capture to your live settings.

This is often done when you are sent a new mix of a song to remaster because of a problem with the mix that wasn't noticed before it was sent for mastering, happens too often. The classic "just run it through the same settings" request.

In REAPER I have a great script to toggle between the live input and what was previously captured on that track/take so I can listen to make sure all my analog settings are the same again, or if there are any differences, they are intentional.

This is one area I've been meaning to explore more as I migrate the analog I/O processing to WaveLab finally.
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Re: Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by PG »

There is a shortcut for solo/listen, but you are right, not one for monitoring. Something I note to add.
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Re: Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by Justin P »

PG wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:56 am
There is a shortcut for solo/listen, but you are right, not one for monitoring. Something I note to add.
Thanks!
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Re: Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by toader »

PG wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:55 am
Isn’t the master section in the only place to do that?
You can also use montage track effects and use the monitor button on that track.
Hey PG, THIS IS WORKING AWESOME!!! WAVELAB HAS AN INPUT FX RACK, AND IT'S EASY!!! :-) Here's what I'm doing:

My montage has two tracks:

1) One standard stereo track with masters that are already finished (FX are on clips here), and
2) A reference track.

For FX/plugins I want running in realtime on the input/monitor, I load them into the track FX section of the reference track... And then I leave the monitor button engaged on the reference track. Then I can instantly A/B between previously finished masters, and the current one I'm working on just by clicking the "listen alone" button on the reference track. When the track is finished, I record/capture the audio onto the first track. Any plugins that were running in realtime on the track FX for the reference track can be easily copied to clips using the COPY button in the inspector (track FX window), click to select the new clip, click to view clip FX in the inspector, and click the paste button to paste the FX.

This is awesome! I'm so psyched... Just wanted to let you guys know I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do... and technically now, WAVELAB HAS AN INPUT FX RACK! :-)

-Todd
Computer 1: Cubase 10.5.12, RME HDSPe AES (x2), RME HDSPe AIO (x1), Nvidia NVS 510 video card, Dell T7500 workstation with Intel Xeon X5690 (6 cores with hyperthreading) 3.47gHz, 24GB RAM, UAD-2 Quad, Windows 10 64-bit
Computer 2: Wavelab 10.0.30, RME HDSPe AIO, AMD Radeon RX 480 video, Dell XPS 8720 with Intel I7-7700 CPU (4 cores with hyperthreading) 3.6gHz, 24GB RAM, Windows 10 64-bit

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Re: Feature Request - plugin only active during input monitoring?

Post by PG »

This is awesome! I'm so psyched... Just wanted to let you guys know I'm doing exactly what I wanted to do... and technically now, WAVELAB HAS AN INPUT FX RACK!
Happy that you found a good workflow :)
Philippe

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