Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

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necromorbus
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Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by necromorbus »

I've never used this function before but thought I should give it a shot after watching Justin's great video recently. However, for some reason I don't get the tracks on two alternating tracks, but instead I get a separate track for each file. Am I missing something or is this a bug?
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by Justin P »

necromorbus wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:15 pm
I've never used this function before but thought I should give it a shot after watching Justin's great video recently. However, for some reason I don't get the tracks on two alternating tracks, but instead I get a separate track for each file. Am I missing something or is this a bug?
There are 3 options.

All on one track, staggered on two tracks, or all on their own track and all clips placed at 0:00 (or wherever the cursor is). Are you sure you chose the 2nd option?

I've done this about a million times in the last 10 years and have never had it not do what was intended.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by necromorbus »

Justin P wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:43 pm
There are 3 options.

All on one track, staggered on two tracks, or all on their own track and all clips placed at 0:00 (or wherever the cursor is). Are you sure you chose the 2nd option?

I've done this about a million times in the last 10 years and have never had it not do what was intended.
Absolutely sure, exactly the same options and I tried it several times. They come out staggered but on different tracks. They're sort of paired, so one will go on the track below the one before, but all on separate tracks. I'll try it out tomorrow and make a screenshot.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by Rat »

necromorbus wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:44 pm
They're sort of paired, so one will go on the track below the one before, but all on separate tracks. I'll try it out tomorrow and make a screenshot.
When you say 'sort of paired' ... these are stereo tracks correct? Not dual mono?
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by S-EH »

Hi!

with Staggering Files box used
Try tick box or combo(s) with
"Start Inserting below Selected Track"
or
"Use Existing Tracks (Create New Tracks If Necessary)"

it works here on WL 10.0.40 and OSX 10.14.6 Mojave

regards S-EH
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by necromorbus »

Ok, back with some screenshots. Here are the settings (although I've tried a bunch of things):
Settings.png
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Here's the result:
Result.png
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Also tried with other files. Same thing, but not one track per file but a mixed salad:
Result 2.png
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by necromorbus »

One more:
Result 3.png
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by HomePlayer »

Be sure to place the Mouse-Pointer in the upper trace, before you import the clips into the audiomontage (you should see the vertical yellow line in the upper trace only).
Otherwise additional traces are added.
Hope that helps
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by necromorbus »

HomePlayer wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:42 am
Be sure to place the Mouse-Pointer in the upper trace, before you import the clips into the audiomontage (you should see the vertical yellow line in the upper trace only).
Otherwise additional traces are added.
Hope that helps
Just tried that, same result.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by Justin P »

necromorbus wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:50 am
Ok, back with some screenshots. Here are the settings (although I've tried a bunch of things):
Settings.png

Here's the result:
Result.png

Also tried with other files. Same thing, but not one track per file but a mixed salad:

Result 2.png
Wow, that is very strange. How many tracks are in the montage before you try doing this? All I can think is that this is a strange bug, in which case PG would need to know more details about your operating system, source files, and other details to reproduce....or maybe if you have more than a few tracks already existing in the montage, it spreads them out like this instead, but I've never tried doing this with more than one existing track.

Either way, I have never seen it produce that kind of result so it must be either a bug, or a strange loop-hole somewhere.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by necromorbus »

Justin P wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:19 am
Wow, that is very strange. How many tracks are in the montage before you try doing this? All I can think is that this is a strange bug, in which case PG would need to know more details about your operating system, source files, and other details to reproduce....or maybe if you have more than a few tracks already existing in the montage, it spreads them out like this instead, but I've never tried doing this with more than one existing track.

Either way, I have never seen it produce that kind of result so it must be either a bug, or a strange loop-hole somewhere.
I've tried all kinds of different things, starting with one track, two tracks, etc, always the same result.

I'll be happy to provide whatever info is needed to track down the bug! PG, let me know what you need.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by Justin P »

necromorbus wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:22 am
Justin P wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:19 am
Wow, that is very strange. How many tracks are in the montage before you try doing this? All I can think is that this is a strange bug, in which case PG would need to know more details about your operating system, source files, and other details to reproduce....or maybe if you have more than a few tracks already existing in the montage, it spreads them out like this instead, but I've never tried doing this with more than one existing track.

Either way, I have never seen it produce that kind of result so it must be either a bug, or a strange loop-hole somewhere.
I've tried all kinds of different things, starting with one track, two tracks, etc, always the same result.

I'll be happy to provide whatever info is needed to track down the bug! PG, let me know what you need.
I think what would be best, is a screen recording video to get the full picture of what's going on. Also, always important is your operating system version and confirming which version of WaveLab you are using. 10.0.40 for example. I have never in 10 years seen WaveLab do what you've shown in the photo so there has to be an explanation. Could be the source files, a quirk with your OS/WL version combo, or something else hard to notice in screen shots and text only.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by necromorbus »

Justin P wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:31 am
I think what would be best, is a screen recording video to get the full picture of what's going on. Also, always important is your operating system version and confirming which version of WaveLab you are using. 10.0.40 for example. I have never in 10 years seen WaveLab do what you've shown in the photo so there has to be an explanation. Could be the source files, a quirk with your OS/WL version combo, or something else hard to notice in screen shots and text only.
Win 10 v1903
Wavelab 10.0.40

Looking into screen capture now, will post as soon as I've sorted it out.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by necromorbus »

Alright, here it is:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ar3W-MwG-a_i6XdTgLf ... X?e=evmkB1

As you can see, I tried with three different sets of files. In the second one I tried, it actually worked as expected. I've tried with other file sets now as well, it's like 50/50 or something. Seemed to be linked with file naming (like "number" - "name") but then that didn't work with another file set so that wasn't it.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by Justin P »

Interesting. I don't think I have software that can play an mkv file but maybe PG will see this and can figure out what's going wrong because the 2nd option for staggering should only create a total of 2 montage tracks, and stagger the clips from track 1 and track 2 back and forth.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by necromorbus »

Justin P wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:07 pm
Interesting. I don't think I have software that can play an mkv file but maybe PG will see this and can figure out what's going wrong because the 2nd option for staggering should only create a total of 2 montage tracks, and stagger the clips from track 1 and track 2 back and forth.
Changed it to an mp4, maybe that works better?

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ar3W-MwG-a_i6XjTRxO ... G?e=3Xq8wB
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by Justin P »

Yeah, this video actually plays right in the web browser too, and would probably play in Quicktime etc.

Anyway, now that I see your workflow, I thought at first it was going to be because you are dragging files in right from the File Browser which I have never used before. I simply use the shortcut to Insert Audio Files and a window pops up to select the files. However, I just tried your method and I still get just two tracks.

I'm on a Mac though. I think PG will have to weigh in on this bug or loophole but if you do the Windows equivalent of SHIFT + Command + I to insert the files instead, do you get any difference.

To me this feels like a Windows specific bug or loophole that somehow you're only experiencing or reporting.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by PG »

This looks like a bug. But I can't reproduce it.
I can't detect on your video, the difference when it does not work, and when it works, at the second attempt. What do you do differently?
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by necromorbus »

PG wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:57 pm
This looks like a bug. But I can't reproduce it.
I can't detect on your video, the difference when it does not work, and when it works, at the second attempt. What do you do differently?
The only difference is the files I use. I could also add that the result for a particular file set always seems to be exactly the same, i.e. the files always end up in the same configuration on the tracks.

Justin, I have tried both with dragging them down and inserting them with the file selector, the result is exactly the same.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by Justin P »

Wow. For the first time in 10 years, I had this bug happen to me today, and it was a 6 song project like the one in your picture.

I think I might know the problem. Did this project contain a file with a really short file name?

Today I had a file that was mistakenly just named:
r.wav

And when I did my usual thing, the files ended up on more than two tracks like your picture. When I went back and correctly named the file from r.wav to a longer and correct name, the problem went away.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by necromorbus »

That's very interesting Justin, I also suspected it had something to do with the names because everything else in the files I used was the same (sample rate, bit rate, all exported from Cubase). I'll try it out over here today as well and report back.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by necromorbus »

Alright, back with some test results:

I started out with a set of files that gave me 3 tracks when importing. Changed the names to all files to "a.wav", "b.wav" and so on. Got something like 6 tracks. Changed the names to 1a, 2b, 3c and so on, then it came out correctly on two tracks staggered. Changed the names to aa, bb, cc etc, same result with that.

Went back to the original files with the original names, imported all but one file to see which one was causing problems. In this case it was specifically one file called "Wolves of Ardeal.wav". Excluding that file will stagger on two tracks. Renaming that file to something else, INCLUDING renaming it to "a.wav" will make the files stagger correctly. Changing the name back to "Wolves of Ardeal.wav", back to the same behavior. Changing it to "Wolves of.wav", works correctly. Changing it to "Wolves.wav", works correctly. Changing it to "Ardeal.wav", now I get 4 tracks.

Further experimentation:
"ar.wav" = 4 tracks
"rd.wav" = 2 tracks
"de.wav" = 2 tracks
"ea.wav" = 2 tracks
"al.wav" = 4 tracks
"at.wav" = 2 tracks
"el.wav" = 5 tracks
"et.wav" = 2 tracks
"e.wav" = 2 tracks
"r.wav" = 4 tracks (shoutout to Justin)
"er.wav" = 5 tracks
"erer.wav" = 5 tracks

Now, as fun as it is to spend the weekend experimenting with this, I think I'll tend to something else for a bit. ;) But I think we've narrowed it down to that the name is key. Also doesn't seem to be the length of the name, but rather a combination of letters in the name, or specific letters.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by necromorbus »

PG, did you check if you could replicate this issue with the names on your end?
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by PG »

I did not check yet. It's on my todo list, but I have other priorities at the moment.
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Re: Stagger on two alternating tracks - Bug?

Post by Rat »

necromorbus wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:09 pm

Also doesn't seem to be the length of the name, but rather a combination of letters in the name, or specific letters.
FWIW, I have noticed that if I copy and paste a name from a file (for example a simple word docx) that was generated in OSX I can get weird behavior. I first noticed it when doing a simple copy and paste from a word doc and found characters gone astray in CD text and some other places.

But if I retype the same text in WL, it 'works' as expected.

Of course, I'm not sure that this is relevant to what you are experiencing but I thought it worth mentioning.
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