Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

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rodneygates
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Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by rodneygates »

I recently purchased the Softube Console 1 Fader unit and, though it's excellent in design and build quality, the largest drawback is the need to instantiate their VST3 plug-in on every single audio channel in order for it to work (I suspect this is due to getting around limited integration with Nuendo / Cubase by an outside company).

On my larger cinematic template, this necessity really starts to suck up the resources in the Audio Performance meter before any other plug-ins are added.

Can anyone comment on whether a mid-price-range fader controller unit (like the Console 1 Fader at $700) is being developed with better Nuendo integration? The Nuage system is simply too expensive for a home studio.
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by twelvetwelve »

Avid Mix/S1 units combined with the excellent (and free!) Avid Control phone/tablet app are the way to go for that price tier.

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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by J L Bowie »

Find a used Houston Controller. Can't ask for better integration with Nuendo and Cubase (even adapted to the 16 sends) for the price. Been using one (Same one) for almost eighteen years. Works like a champ and, despite predictions by early naysayers, still ticking.
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by rodneygates »

Wow, blast from the past (the Houston)! Glad it's still working for you. :-)
- Rodney

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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by Dolfo »

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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by MattiasNYC »

rodneygates wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:31 pm
Can anyone comment on whether a mid-price-range fader controller unit (like the Console 1 Fader at $700) is being developed with better Nuendo integration? The Nuage system is simply too expensive for a home studio.
Well, in my experience, like close to 20 years now, Steinberg doesn't really talk much about anything new that's coming so I doubt you'll hear anyone say anything about it until it's firmly set that they're releasing something.

As for what you're looking for though I think I agree with others that your best bet is likely either to go Eucon, which will be about two times more than the Console 1 Fader, or go with a Mackie 'clone'. Generally I'd say that some sort of LED strip with channel names is pretty much needed.

Actually, I'll also add that it seems unlikely that Steinberg or Yamaha would develop a very good controller at a price even close to what you're looking at, simply because the market is pretty small and the better the device is the more it's going to compete with Nuage. I think we all want a Yamaha/Steinberg equivalent to the Avid cheaper stuff (with better faders maybe) for about the same price... but it's a small market...
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by Leonardo Valvassori »

Has anyone tried the Slate Raven?
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by JoDell19 »

Hello, I have been using a Houston Controller since Nuendo 1's release.

I am curious if anyone in this forum has tried Nuendo with a FaderPort16. This is where I would like to see Nuendo head towards, if they are considering a controller.
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by MattiasNYC »

Leonardo Valvassori wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:19 pm
Has anyone tried the Slate Raven?
Yes. I disliked it.

It was version 1 at Guitar Center and with Pro Tools. For most of the work I do for post production I see it as mostly a waste.
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by fenderchris »

Leonardo Valvassori wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:19 pm
Has anyone tried the Slate Raven?
I haven't tried it, but there are a lot of used ones for sale which I think tells me something.
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by MattiasNYC »

Slate's one of the best salesmen I've ever seen.
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by profdraper »

JoDell19 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:25 pm
I am curious if anyone in this forum has tried Nuendo with a FaderPort16. This is where I would like to see Nuendo head towards, if they are considering a controller.
Yes, I love it. Nice small footprint too.
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

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twelvetwelve wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:53 pm
Avid Mix/S1 units combined with the excellent (and free!) Avid Control phone/tablet app are the way to go for that price tier.

Are you actually USING this setup? I am surprised by the number of NUENDO USERS I see recommending this. The Avid Control CAUSES A TOTAL CRASH OF NUENDO the moment you touch the tracks page, which has ALL of the features you'd want to use (the other pages are already covered by the hardware without the app). All of the "Cool Features" that actually make this "Nuage Like" are on the one page that causes a total systemic crash!

Several people told me that they use it and JUST AVOID TOUCHING THE TRACKS TAB! But they admit that sometimes they accidentally hit and it cause the system to crash. but they just look at that as a bug that will eventually be fixed in the distant future. :o WTH?!!? They don't think that multiple crashes won't corrupt a file? Even if it doesn't, how is THAT KIND OF INTERRUPTION considered acceptable?

The only people who can use that app SAFELY are Pro Tools users, which I'm sure is by design. So I'm really curious about what's causing your enthusiastic endorsement of this product? :?:
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by ChazC »

fenderchris wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:32 pm

I haven't tried it, but there are a lot of used ones for sale which I think tells me something.
I didn't try the Raven but I did use DTouch for a while (same principle, but a lot cheaper). I think the problem with touchscreens materialise when you start to mix - especially if you're used to working on an analogue desk. I found how much I actually reacted to a mix by physically grabbing a fader or two without thinking about it (ie. not having to look at a screen to see which fader I'm grabbing). Completely broke the creative flow for me.

Having said that, the macro features on touchscreen buttons are great when editing/composing but for me it all falls apart when you try to do a full mix.
- Chaz

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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by twelvetwelve »

No crash like you describe here. If you have a solid repro I can report it.

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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by Keyplayer »

twelvetwelve wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:07 am
No crash like you describe here. If you have a solid repro I can report it.
Really? You are truly among the very blessed! This crashing issue has been discussed to death both here and at the Avid Forums. Anybody NOT using PT has the issue except about 10 people (I guess you'll make 11)! The rest of us keep asking you guys HOW you're avoiding the crash and none of you have an answer, because it, apparently JUST WORKS. :o

I got the instant crash as soon as I launched on my iPad. I could only get it to work sometimes on my Samsung S8+ phone. So I purchased a brand new Samsung Tab 4 (directly from the approved tablets list from avid), thinking/hoping it was a platform issue. Nope, crashed just like the iPad! :x

If you're looking for the repro, here are the links to the "Well of Souls" TRYING to get this damned app to work for them.
viewtopic.php?f=291&t=175390&p=955674#p955674
viewtopic.php?f=283&t=147640&hilit=Why+ ... gnoring+us
viewtopic.php?p=1010304#p1010304
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by twelvetwelve »

Not sure what to say - absolutely no problems with that here. It just works. I've got a 256 knobcache set and no inputs or MIDI tracks.

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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by Keyplayer »

twelvetwelve wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:31 pm
Not sure what to say - absolutely no problems with that here. It just works. I've got a 256 knobcache set and no inputs or MIDI tracks.
I just tried a variation or your template. I kept a pair of pair of stereo inputs > 32 EMPTY audio (16 Mono & 16 St.) Tracks > 12 Groups > 12 VCA > 5.1 Out, St. Out & Mono Out, A TOTAL OF 63 TRACKS (Input to output with zero data or plugs). Here's the result, the INSTANT I TOUCH THE TRACKS TAB.
NUENDO 10 TEST TEMPLATE_CRASH MESSAGE.jpg
(999.58 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Followed instantly by the Eucon Crash.
NUENDO 10 TEST TEMPLATE_EUCON CRASH MESSAGE.jpg
(1.01 MiB) Not downloaded yet
I'd post the Task Mgr Page to show how EVERYTHING IS LOCKED INTO UNRESPONSIVE. But you can only post 3 screenshots per comment.
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by Keyplayer »

Keyplayer wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:05 pm
twelvetwelve wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:31 pm
Not sure what to say - absolutely no problems with that here. It just works. I've got a 256 knobcache set and no inputs or MIDI tracks.
I just tried a variation or your template. I kept a pair of pair of stereo inputs > 32 EMPTY audio (16 Mono & 16 St.) Tracks > 12 Groups > 12 VCA > 5.1 Out, St. Out & Mono Out, A TOTAL OF 63 TRACKS (Input to output with zero data or plugs).
NUENDO 10 TEST TEMPLATE_NO MIDI_32A+12GRP+12VCA.jpg

Here's the result, the INSTANT I TOUCH THE TRACKS TAB.
NUENDO 10 TEST TEMPLATE_CRASH MESSAGE.jpg

Followed instantly by the Eucon Crash.
NUENDO 10 TEST TEMPLATE_EUCON CRASH MESSAGE.jpg

I'd post the Task Mgr Page to show how EVERYTHING IS LOCKED INTO UNRESPONSIVE. But you can only post 3 screenshots per comment.
This was using the brand new Samsung Tablet with the latest specs along with Eucon 20.6 on the Artist Series with the latest firmware. I got the same results when it was the PT App and again later as Avid Control on my iPad. Same results on my i7 MOBO and now my i9 MOBO. At this point, I have to reboot the entire PC or risk all kinds of instability/file corruption issues.
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by twelvetwelve »

Not sure what to tell you. Working in sessions much larger with plugins and I don't get anything like that and never have. I tried your suggestion but went with close to 400 tracks in the test and no issues at all either - it just works fine. Try using just the app only, a different router maybe and see if you can narrow down the cause.

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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by Keyplayer »

twelvetwelve wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:22 am
Not sure what to tell you. Working in sessions much larger with plugins and I don't get anything like that and never have. I tried your suggestion but went with close to 400 tracks in the test and no issues at all either - it just works fine. Try using just the app only, a different router maybe and see if you can narrow down the cause.
I already tried using the app by itself. Everybody who has this issue (and there are waaaay more of us than you "Lucky Guys") will tell you that you cannot go above 40 tracks, if you want to use this app. My basic template starts at 116 tracks. So, I can only use the Artist Series hardware. I've been fighting this battle since 2018. It's not worth it anymore.
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Re: Are Steinberg/Yamaha planning an affordable 8-10 hardware fader controller with CC121-like integration?

Post by GSlawson »

Leonardo Valvassori wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:19 pm
Has anyone tried the Slate Raven?
I have been using the Raven Mti2 for a year now with Nuendo. The macros are great, but as Mattias pointed out, I do mostly post work, and the monitor being 1080, and having the command strip take up 25% of the screen leaves very little space to view 100 tracks in a mix to find what you need. It has been a struggle, but recently I set up the visibility configs on command buttons, as well as the commands to show only tracks with regions under the playhead and between the locators. It has completely changed the workflow and allowed me to quickly find what I needed to work on. I got the idea from watching a Nuage tutorial. So I have gone through and made key commands for a huge amount of functions I could never remember and assigned them to the layouts and buttons of the Raven. It has allowed me to be far more efficient with the mixes, but I still really miss grabbing a fader without looking, which I can not do on the screen. I love the idea of the S1 and S3, but the track visibility issue is a non starter. There is a workaround however. If you choose to keep the tracks in a visibility config to the left or right by choosing those buttons in the zones window, you can keep them all in a row when you select the visibility config, and you don't have to worry about the tracks not hiding. At least you can find them quickly. I am, considering moving from the Raven to an S1 and using this workaround. We really do need an affordable, reliable controller for Cubendo that doesn't cost $25,000.
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