Mono to multichannel

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MatC
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Mono to multichannel

Post by MatC »

Hello!
I've upgraded from N5.5 to N10 when it came out.
In N5.5 if you right-clicked on a clip you could either split a multichannel file to mono files (replaced by function "Split channels") but you could also select several mono clips on different tracks and create a multichannel file. Now the only option to do something similar seems to be to create a multichannel group and bounce.
Am I missing something or it has actually become impossible to convert two mono tracks to one stereo or several mono tracks to a multichannel file?

Regards
M
Nuendo 10.3 | RME HDSPe MADI | HP Z210: Xeon E3-1240, 8GB RAM| Windows 10

Niekbeem
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Re: Mono to multichannel

Post by Niekbeem »

Am I missing something or it has actually become impossible to convert two mono tracks to one stereo or several mono tracks to a multichannel file?
Yeah, I've also wondered why Steinberg only implemented 50% of the Audio/ Split Channels feature.....why didn't they implement the other way around too? "Combine Clips into Multichannel Clip" or something?

The menu PROJECT/ CONVERT TRACKS/ MONO TO MULTICHANNEL is still there. Although it's a very complicated way to combine audioclips into one multichannel clip and it creates a lot of unnecessary files, it does the job you have been looking for I hope?

Render-In-Place or Exporting Selected Events most of the time gives me unexpected (and unwanted) results, because the rendering engine uses the group- and output structure in my projects. This means that rendering a 2-clips-selection results into a 5.1 file when working in a 5.1 project for example.
Unless Steinberg fixed this (didn't check yet) this means that when you want to render a 6-clips-selection into a 5.1 file, you might need to set up a rendering-bus for this 5.1 panning-format in your project?! And so on for any other kind of panning-format?
Let me know if you've invented something genius to avoid this?

Niek/ Amsterdam.
Nuendo 10 / Pro Tools Ultimate / Logic X / MixBus32C 5 / WaveLab 10
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Fredo
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Re: Mono to multichannel

Post by Fredo »

I don't understand the feature request.
It seems logical to me that you need create a multichannel group or output before you can merge x-number of mono-channels into a multichannel file.

How can the application possibly know the channel order/format of the multichannel file you want to create?
For example, a 4-channel file can be: Quad, LRCS, LRC+LFE or LRS+LFE.
Depending on how you order your tracks and to which destination you send it, the correct multichannel file will be created.

I see no reason to make multichannel files that are simply "a collection of mono-files" without description which is which and where it needs to be routed to.

Fredo

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Fredo
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Re: Mono to multichannel

Post by Fredo »

Niekbeem wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:58 am

The menu PROJECT/ CONVERT TRACKS/ MONO TO MULTICHANNEL is still there. Although it's a very complicated way to combine audioclips into one multichannel clip and it creates a lot of unnecessary files, it does the job you have been looking for I hope?
It seems that you are, or want to, use this feature for something it isn't designed for.

What do you mean by unnecessary files?
The events that are on the tracks you have included into your "Mono-to-multichannel" setup, will be merged to multichannel.
I can't see where the unnecessary files can come from ...

Fredo

Niekbeem
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Re: Mono to multichannel

Post by Niekbeem »

What do you mean by unnecessary files?
I often merge 6 mono events from a six-mono-track-5.1-montage into a 5.1 audiofile. For example when a 5.1-sound effect from a commercial library comes in 6 mono files.
When I use PROJECT/ CONVERT TRACKS/ MONO TO MULTICHANNEL for that, Nuendo renders the entire length of these 6 tracks into a 5.1 track, instead of only the length of the selected events. Besides this process can take a while (depending on the length of the audio content on the tracks), Nuendo creates (an) audiofile(s) of which I only need a portion.

Though:
I've got this workaround: I copy the 6 events (or range-selections) which I want to be converted into 1 5.1 file to my "work"-tracks, which I've set-up before (in a template) and from there I use this PROJECT/ CONVERT TRACKS/ MONO TO MULTICHANNEL-feature. When Nuendo has rendered my 5.1-file and when that has been put in a newly-made 5.1 track, I cut this 5.1-event and paste it into the track where it eventually belonged.



It seems logical to me that you need create a multichannel group or output before you can merge x-number of mono-channels into a multichannel file.
I see no reason to make multichannel files that are simply "a collection of mono-files" without description which is which and where it needs to be routed to.
Wouldn't it be nice if Nuendo would just handle audio-format-conversions a little bit more flexible than it does now?
I would really warm-welcome it when Nuendo would ask me: You've selected "an X number of" events, and you want them to be merged into 1 audiofile....Which source-event would you like to be sent to what destination?
Nuendo's Render In Place feature already has a quite comprehensive Render Setting-window, so why not broaden its features? I think it will allow for a less time-consuming workflow, and it would allow for more creativity.

Niek/ Amsterdam
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Fredo
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Re: Mono to multichannel

Post by Fredo »

Niekbeem wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:53 am
For example when a 5.1-sound effect from a commercial library comes in 6 mono files.
Then these 6 files all have a specific destination/channel routing.
Left, Center, Right, Ls, Rs and LFE, and they should be named accordingly.
They should be merged into a "correct" 5.1 audio file. Correct channel layout and metadata, so that when the file is loaded into a DAW with another channel layout, the channels are routed to the correct outputs.
Niekbeem wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:53 am
When I use PROJECT/ CONVERT TRACKS/ MONO TO MULTICHANNEL for that, Nuendo renders the entire length of these 6 tracks into a 5.1 track, instead of only the length of the selected events.
That's why the function is called "Convert Tracks" and not "Convert events".
Also, why do all the other files in these 6 "surround" tracks don't have to be converted into a multichannel file?
If you have 6 channels -I assume routed to the correct 5.1 channels- then all of these files could benefit from being merged into a multichannel, no?

When we receive an AAF from the video editors, the Music tracks are mostly split into two mono tracks.
After verification that all is OK on these tracks, the complete MX tracks get converted to stereo, retaining levels, edits, handles, etc ...
Can't be more convenient, no?
Niekbeem wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:53 am
Wouldn't it be nice if Nuendo would just handle audio-format-conversions a little bit more flexible than it does now?
Please no.

You are ignoring the fact that any channel within the multichannel .wav need to have a correct identification of which channel it belongs to.
Your 6 mono files are named correctly (Left/Right/Center/etc ...)
This information is (and needs to be) written within the Multichannel audiofile as metadata.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... extensible

If you are currently merging your 6 mono files into 5.1 files without taking care of the channel config, then all is going to end up in the wrong channels.
Your files/tracks need to be arranged according the channel layout, from top to bottom.
Track 1 : Left
Track 2 : Right
Track 3: Center
Etc ...


If you change this order (or import them in alphabetical order)
Track 1 : Center
Track 2 : L
Track 3 : LFE
Track 4 : Ls
Track 5 : R
Track 6 : Rs

After converting above example into a 5.1 file, your LFE channel will end up in your Center speaker and the Left Surround channel will be routed to your Sub.
Niekbeem wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:53 am
I would really warm-welcome it when Nuendo would ask me: You've selected "an X number of" events, and you want them to be merged into 1 audiofile....Which source-event would you like to be sent to what destination?
Then you would also have to fill in the information in some sort of matrix before you can (blindly) merge your files.

Fredo

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