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Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:13 am
by antani
Hello there,

I have a question about opening and bouncing from Cubase 10.5 projects in Nuendo 10.3.

By using the exact same template in Vienna Ensemble Pro, with the exact same Cubase 10.5 project, the result of the bounces from Cubase and Nuendo were dramatically different in terms of separation and detail in Nuendo 10.3. To my ears Nuendo has incredible separation and detail, but has a little harsher sound, whereas Cubase has definitely a smoother sound, all things being equal.

Same thing happened when bouncing from projects with just audio, using only Cubase stock plugins.

I imported the audio files of the bounces, put a 180 phase inversion on one, and the sound information resulting from the differences of the two files was massive.

Anyone else experienced something similar? Is it related to a different audio engine?

The $240 crossgrade is really attractive!

Thanks!

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:11 pm
by Robin Walsh
This is huge! I don't have Cubase, so is there anyone else who can do the same tests? Perhaps the Steinberg team could chime in? Fredo?

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:45 pm
by Fredo
Impossible. Nuendo doesn't sound *any* different to Cubase.
The exports should be bit-for bit *exactly" the same.
Something must be different in your settings/setup, but *AGAIN*, there is NO difference between Cubase and Nuendo.

Fredo

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:12 pm
by Robin Walsh
Fredo wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:45 pm
Impossible. Nuendo doesn't sound *any* different to Cubase.
The exports should be bit-for bit *exactly" the same.
Something must be different in your settings/setup, but *AGAIN*, there is NO difference between Cubase and Nuendo.

Fredo
I'm surprised by this too. Yip, there must be something different between exports. Perhaps it could be 32 vs 64 bit processing in the audio setup?

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:19 pm
by Getalife2
Pan law.

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:32 pm
by drakuhluh
Getalife2 wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:19 pm
Pan law.
Agreed. @Fredo any chance you have Cubase & Nuendo installs to check your output settings on export?

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:39 pm
by -steve-
What is there to check?

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:01 pm
by Fredo
Robin Walsh wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:12 pm
Perhaps it could be 32 vs 64 bit processing in the audio setup?
Nope.
I bet you that an export @ 32 bit will null bit for bit with an export @ 64bit.

Fredo

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:09 pm
by Fredo
drakuhluh wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:32 pm

Agreed. @Fredo any chance you have Cubase & Nuendo installs to check your output settings on export?
I have done more null-testing in my life than any moderator and nobody does it better than me.
(Sorry, couldn't resist) :) :) :)

No, really. I am not going to test anything. Been there, done that, bought a dozen T-Shirts.
Simply because there is no difference between Nuendo & Cubase.
It's the same application. They are Identical, except for the extra features that Nuendo has.
The "engine" is **exactly** the same.

Fredo

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:25 pm
by drakuhluh
No, really. I am not going to test anything. Been there, done that, bought a dozen T-Shirts.


Fredo
hahahah I apologize - I meant to direct that to the OP not you! (more coffee before posting anything else)

@antani ?

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:12 pm
by antani
Thanks all for the replies, I checked all the settings, pan law, 32 vs 64 and the .cpr project is exactly the same, so I don’t understand why. When you say the export settings with null bit by bit what do you mean?

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:04 pm
by MattiasNYC
antani wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:12 pm
Thanks all for the replies, I checked all the settings, pan law, 32 vs 64 and the .cpr project is exactly the same, so I don’t understand why. When you say the export settings with null bit by bit what do you mean?
Sorry I just re-read your first post: He's talking about what you (hopefully) did when you inverted the phase.

Btw: You did actually invert the phase, right? Not delay it by 180 degrees? Because that's not the same thing...

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:08 pm
by -steve-
Does this mean I need to buy popcorn?

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:19 pm
by MattiasNYC
...and butter...

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:40 pm
by antani
MattiasNYC wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:04 pm
antani wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:12 pm
Thanks all for the replies, I checked all the settings, pan law, 32 vs 64 and the .cpr project is exactly the same, so I don’t understand why. When you say the export settings with null bit by bit what do you mean?
Sorry I just re-read your first post: He's talking about what you (hopefully) did when you inverted the phase.

Btw: You did actually invert the phase, right? Not delay it by 180 degrees? Because that's not the same thing...
I used the phase in the pre section of the channel settings, and set it to 180 degrees. Tried with two identical files and they canceled each other. So I assume that should be what we're talking about, right?

Just to clarify, this is what I did:

- I opened the .cpr file in Nuendo - didn't change any setting, used only the default ones.

- I never changed the settings of the pan law of both Cubase and Nuendo, I attached the settings I use and they're exactly the same both in Nuendo and Cubase.

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:32 am
by Getalife2
Fredo wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:09 pm

I have done more null-testing in my life than any moderator and nobody does it better than me.
(Sorry, couldn't resist) :) :) :)
We would have to compare notes on that. I have also been very deep down that path.

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:55 pm
by Robin Walsh
Fredo wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:01 pm
Robin Walsh wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:12 pm
Perhaps it could be 32 vs 64 bit processing in the audio setup?
Nope.
I bet you that an export @ 32 bit will null bit for bit with an export @ 64bit.

Fredo
Thanks Fredo, good to know

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:53 am
by TimoWildenhain
Hi all,

Fredo is basically right, there aren't any noteworthy differences between Nuendo and Cubase on the engine side.
Nuendo's engine can do up 384 KHz though, Cubase stays at 192.

Thanks,
Timo

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:28 am
by Getalife2
384 KHz?

Anybody?

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:32 am
by ManChicken
I took a project originally done in Nuendo 10.2.10 and opened the same project in both Nuendo 10.3.0 and Cubase 10.5.20 and did mixdowns. Brought the two exports back into Cubase 10.5 and doing a 180 phase on one, they are different but not in any "massive" ways (there's a sort of noise floor on the meters that stay below -60 with occasional little blips to -50.) Listening to each solo to my ears they do not sound different in any noticeable way. Technically not "bit exact" but nothing anyone would ever be able to hear in a million years.

Near as I can tell I have both systems configured the same; engine is running at 32-bit float, mixdown options were exactly the same (48kHz/16-bit)

Original project is fairly simple; a VO track and stereo music.. only using stock effects; Compressor, Maximizer, and some level automation.

Re: Better quality bounces from Cubase 10.5 projects when opening in Nuendo 10.3?

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:30 am
by Fredo
Compressors and other dynamic plugins are often NOT sample accurate, because they have a variable latency. (Very minimal)
Compare it to a modulation plugin, you can't null these, exactly because of the modulation which is running "freely" within the plugin.

HTH
Fredo