VCA BUG?

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johnstaf
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by johnstaf »

The version history for Nuendo 8 updates has the following bug fix.

CAN-11102 "Audio channels with no automation but connected to a VCA are now restored correctly when loading a project."

Does this mean that this issue is just something that popped up again for some reason in Nuendo 10? I hope so, if that means it can be fixed again.

I think Nuendo 10.3 is amazing BTW.
Lots of stuff. OS agnostic.

lovegames
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by lovegames »

johnstaf wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:47 pm
lovegames wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:13 pm
Surely they've seen this thread and are aware of this and are just face palming themselves so hard they can't reply.

I bet you it's not a simple thing to fix, to not break compatibility with peoples previous projects... Like, it''s the kind of thing you want to get right on first release....
Has there been any official word on this? I'd love to use VCAs, but I can't unless I automate audio tracks I don't wish to automate.
not a peep

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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by lovegames »

bump

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fuzzydude
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by fuzzydude »

Bump
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MattiasNYC
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by MattiasNYC »

The following:
twelvetwelve wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:19 am
I think you're misreading what's required.

- Create a new project
- Create an audio track
- Set audio track to -10dB FS
- Create a VCA which is connected to that audio track (VCA @ 0, audio track still @ -10)
- Draw some automation on the VCA channel which goes from 0 to -oo (e.g. a few bars into the project)
- Position the cursor on the VCA automation which is @ -oo and save the project
- Close the project
- Re-open the project
- Position the cursor at the front of the project

--> Expected: Audio track would be @ -10dB FS at the front of the session with the VCA @ 0
--> Action: Audio track is now @ 0dB FS with the VCA @ 0

Super easy to reproduce here.
Is still something I can reproduce in 10.3.0, build 184.. i.e. still broken.

Placing an automation node on the audio track solves the problem.. as before.
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MattiasNYC
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by MattiasNYC »

HughH wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 9:49 pm
I found another issue I can't explain:

Touch Mode. Virg Terr off.
Audio Track. VCA. Link to VCA.
Set Audio Track to -10.
Start rolling and write some Automation on AUDIO Track starting a few seconds in. Little up, little down. Doesn't matter.
Stop and return to start.
Track is now at 0, not -10.
Play and Track will slowly descend to -10 at exactly the point automation started.
Also reproduced! Same version.

Also solved by using an automation node.
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MattiasNYC
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by MattiasNYC »

Also the following variation is malfunctioning:
HughH wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 9:49 pm
I found another issue I can't explain:

Touch Mode. Virg Terr ON.
Audio Track. VCA. Link to VCA.
Set Audio Track to -10.
Start rolling and write some Automation on AUDIO Track starting a few seconds in. Little up, little down. Doesn't matter.
Stop and return to start.
I see two errors:

1. "Track is now at 0, not -10." Same as before. But also;

2. On punch-out there's the ramp back up to the "first" value, which was -10. However, it's as if that is written as if the fill option "to end" was enabled.

In contrast, with Virgin Territory turned ON and NO link to a VCA (still with no automation written to it) the behavior is as expected, with the last automation node being wherever the fader was when it was no longer touched, and AFTER that node there is again virgin territory.

To see the difference just execute the test as Hugh wrote it out with and without VT enabled and watch the result.
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MattiasNYC
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by MattiasNYC »

PS: You can probably safely just delete the "?" in the thread title because it definitely seems like it's a bug.
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by MaxRod »

I asked steinberg every year to repare vca function. They don't hear anything. That's a shame really!

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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by lovegames »

bump please fix this

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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by lovegames »

bump

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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by mtouren »

But what a problem, it's crazy :shock:
Last edited by mtouren on Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

twelvetwelve
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by twelvetwelve »

Good luck expecting a fix. They've never worked properly and are probably unlikely to.

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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by fenderchris »

I can live without VCAs, but it is pretty disgraceful that Steinberg have never got it working properly.

Dreadful PR too.
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fuzzydude
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by fuzzydude »

Ugh! Having VCA's is super useful. Having to put up with this bug isn't. It's a great shame that they've not been able to get this working properly. They are a skilled bunch of coders, so I can only assume that getting them working as they should, including an operational mute button (as in Cubase), is just not possible, or we'd have it already!
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MattiasNYC
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by MattiasNYC »

It's possible. We sent people to the moon and back.
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fuzzydude
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by fuzzydude »

MattiasNYC wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:54 pm
It's possible. We sent people to the moon and back.
😁
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by grayter1 »

This is why I stick with Pro Tools. VCA's are integral to my workflow.

tg
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MattiasNYC
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by MattiasNYC »

As much as I dislike that there are still problems with it, they're still work-around-able by placing an automation point at the beginning of the tracks. At least based on what I saw last.

So they're usable with that caveat.
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by Getalife2 »

MattiasNYC wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:54 pm
It's possible. We sent people to the moon and back.
True, but that requires defining the word "We", doesn't it? :D
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lovegames
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by lovegames »

The workaround is about as annoying as the bug itself

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Fredo
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by Fredo »

lovegames wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:11 am
The workaround is about as annoying as the bug itself
Depends on how you look at it.
To me, creating initial parameters is mandatory for starting *any* project.
This is the only way you can guarantee that -after closing and reopening- your project plays back the way it is intended.

Fredo

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fuzzydude
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by fuzzydude »

Fredo wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:42 am
lovegames wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:11 am
The workaround is about as annoying as the bug itself
Depends on how you look at it.
To me, creating initial parameters is mandatory for starting *any* project.
This is the only way you can guarantee that -after closing and reopening- your project plays back the way it is intended.

Fredo
If creating those initial parameters is mandatory to guaranteeing a project plays back correctly on reopening, I’m surprised Steiny haven’t created a function that adds those parameters automatically on VCA tracks when automation for that track is enabled.

It would also be great if they could enable the use of the mute function on VCA’s. Mute is already enabled for VCA’s in Cubase.
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Fredo
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by Fredo »

fuzzydude wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:47 am

If creating those initial parameters is mandatory to guaranteeing a project plays back correctly on reopening, I’m surprised Steiny haven’t created a function that adds those parameters automatically on VCA tracks when automation for that track is enabled.
Because it is impossible, unless you create initial parameters.
In a fairly simple project, you are probably more or less safe, but not with a complicated Post-project with tons of automation.

Say, you insert a third party plugin in a track.
No need for automation.
Project done and archived.
Plugin gets an update.
You reopen the project with that updated plugin.
What are the chances that the plugin snaps to the same preset and/or parameters you have initially dialed in?

Open a project which has no automation written.
Accidently (or intentional) you move a fader or a parameter.
How can you know?

Write plugin automation halfway the project (nothing at the start)
Close your project when your cursor is over halfway.
Reopen.
Go to the the start of your project without playing back the project. Just open and go to start.
Press Play: There is a fair chance that your plugin will remember it's last settings, and not the settings it needs to snap to at the beginning of your project.


Etc ... etc ...

The only way to guarantee that your project always plays back, just the way you inteded it, is by writing automation parameters from the very start.

Fredo

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fuzzydude
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Re: VCA BUG?

Post by fuzzydude »

Fredo wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:35 pm
fuzzydude wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:47 am

If creating those initial parameters is mandatory to guaranteeing a project plays back correctly on reopening, I’m surprised Steiny haven’t created a function that adds those parameters automatically on VCA tracks when automation for that track is enabled.
Because it is impossible, unless you create initial parameters.
In a fairly simple project, you are probably more or less safe, but not with a complicated Post-project with tons of automation.

Say, you insert a third party plugin in a track.
No need for automation.
Project done and archived.
Plugin gets an update.
You reopen the project with that updated plugin.
What are the chances that the plugin snaps to the same preset and/or parameters you have initially dialed in?

Open a project which has no automation written.
Accidently (or intentional) you move a fader or a parameter.
How can you know?

Write plugin automation halfway the project (nothing at the start)
Close your project when your cursor is over halfway.
Reopen.
Go to the the start of your project without playing back the project. Just open and go to start.
Press Play: There is a fair chance that your plugin will remember it's last settings, and not the settings it needs to snap to at the beginning of your project.


Etc ... etc ...

The only way to guarantee that your project always plays back, just the way you inteded it, is by writing automation parameters from the very start.

Fredo
Thanks Fredo, very fair point.
Comps+OS: PC's (Win 10 1903) - Mac Pro (Catalina) - MacBook Pro (Moave) I Nuendo 10 | Cubase Pro 10 I Wavelab 9.5 Pro

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