Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by gylstorff »

I had the exact same problem.
It appears to be linked to the chord track ... Even though the chord track was muted, I saw some events from it on the track that "forgot" the expression setting. Selecting and muting the chord symbols themselves seemed to do the trick.

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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by EmmCeeSq »

I'm having this issue as well. Big problem!
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,
EmmCeeSq wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:19 pm
I'm having this issue as well. Big problem!
Do you use Chord track, please?
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by EmmCeeSq »

Yes, I do! Although there are no chord symbols in there.

I like the chord track (I use it to keep track of vertical harmony when I'm composing in the DAW) so I'd rather keep on using it - hope that's possible?
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,
EmmCeeSq wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:37 pm
Yes, I do! Although there are no chord symbols in there.

I like the chord track (I use it to keep track of vertical harmony when I'm composing in the DAW) so I'd rather keep on using it - hope that's possible?
I was just asking because of previous gylstorff's post:
gylstorff wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:45 pm
I had the exact same problem.
It appears to be linked to the chord track ... Even though the chord track was muted, I saw some events from it on the track that "forgot" the expression setting. Selecting and muting the chord symbols themselves seemed to do the trick.
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by Arthur Rambo »

Hello !
Same problem here...
I have a (around) 70 tracks project, and there are a lot of inconsistancies with BBCSO's expression maps. It often jumps to legato patch for no reason at all.
I have no chords track.
It drives me nuts. The solution would be to have one track per articulation, but what's the point of having expression maps then ? :/
Hope this problem will be solved in a future update !
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,
Arthur Rambo wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:47 am
The solution would be to have one track per articulation, but what's the point of having expression maps then ? :/
This is, how we did it in the past, before expression maps.
Arthur Rambo wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:47 am
Hope this problem will be solved in a future update !
Could you please share one of the Expression Map (for the testing purpose) and one track (with that expression map), which fails often?

Does it fail also just while playback (in loop)? Or do you have to stop playback, jump to other position in the project...? I would like to make it reproducible.
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by arieln »

This still driving me nuts....so, just to add to the cause, here is a little short clip showing it in the act.

You can note that it starts with the Pizzicato articulation, and right in the middle of the (greenish / bluish) note, for no reason changes to Arco and stays there.... :shock:
The track wasn't selected, neither armed, so no MIDI data is being sent to it.

One thing to note is that the project has a lot of tempo changes, but it doesn't always switches to the default articulation on the same spot, it actually varies a lot and it's very inconsistent.

I just spotted this one, but it happens with many other tracks as well.

Edit: Added link to the expression map
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by Arthur Rambo »

I'm using expression maps from this link...
https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com/po ... emplate-01
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by paaltio »

Same thing here. A session that works just fine here on Nuendo 10.2.20 (same ”generation” as Cubase 10 for those wondering) randomly switches to the first articulation on 10.5.

I haven’t figured out a 100% way to reproduce unfortunately, but it happens on every other playback or so with Cubase 10.5 in my problem session, whereas when I loaded the session in Nuendo 10.2.20 the issue never happened again.

The problem appeared at least with my custom expression map for Spitfire samples utilizing CC messages for switching. No chord track.
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by yayellou »

Hi community

Like you, this bug makes me crazy :oops: :oops: :oops:
It's easy to reproduce...
-------
I play staccato bar32 violins 1
During the playback I use a key command to return directly to project start.
Well my long strings bar1 play staccato instead of legato...
Of course, all my notes have an articulation ;)
---------
Please Steinberg, fix it faster as you can and you should :(

Sorry for my bad english ;)
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by yayellou »

Hello everybody,

Well, I can say I fix it the problem... Yes I say I fix it !
Finally, just enough to keep working. So, let's say 90% until Steinberg fixes this bug ;)
Long nights are good to think about this problem.

Well, the articulation stay in place when you change events because there is not midi signal transmitted to the library. As I say, to keep working, it's a solution that calms me down a bit :) When you move a lot in big sessions, it can be useful, for me anyway.
I join 2 pictures.
So, I put an event called 'fake event' before the real part. Inside, I create one note that I mute and I associate it with an another articulation. It can be one note 1/32, just before.

I tested several scenari to if it worked every time and I can say yes.
I hope this TEMPORARY tip can help you lower your blood pressure and make your music sounds like you heard it. In the meantime, let's pray...
On the other hand, if you find other less cumbersome tips to work around the problem, share with the whole community, please ;)

Sorry for my english, I'm still french :lol: Stay strong, stay home :geek:
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,

Thank you very much yayellou for this!

If I understand you right, this means, the bug originally occurs only if the MIDI Note (and the articulation) is placed at the very beginning of the MIDI Part. Am I right?

If I'm right, could you attach a screenshot of your Preferences > MIDI settings, please? Actually I'm wondering about all parameters there.
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by paaltio »

This workaround reminds me of something else that's been happening with expression maps for way longer than this new bug.

Randomly a track will decide its default articulation is not the first one, but something else instead. Doesn't matter if the notes have the first articulation as an attribute or nothing at all (I use only attributes).

E.g. I always have legato/sustain as the default articulation for strings, but suddenly they're playing staccato notes, and it doesn't matter if I specifically select sustain attributes for the notes. It will continue to play the wrong articulation.

How do I fix this? Put a random note using any other attribute at the beginning, just too high for it to play. That resets the expression mapping and the following notes play correctly again. I'll have to try if this muted note trick also resets it.

Unfortunately I don't have a 100% sure reproduction for that, so I've never written up an issue post about it. But these bugs seem fairly similar, so I'm hoping the expression code gets a bit of a refactoring at some point...
yayellou wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:54 am
Hello everybody,

Well, I can say I fix it the problem... Yes I say I fix it !
Finally, just enough to keep working. So, let's say 90% until Steinberg fixes this bug ;)
Long nights are good to think about this problem.

Well, the articulation stay in place when you change events because there is not midi signal transmitted to the library. As I say, to keep working, it's a solution that calms me down a bit :) When you move a lot in big sessions, it can be useful, for me anyway.
I join 2 pictures.
So, I put an event called 'fake event' before the real part. Inside, I create one note that I mute and I associate it with an another articulation. It can be one note 1/32, just before.

I tested several scenari to if it worked every time and I can say yes.
I hope this TEMPORARY tip can help you lower your blood pressure and make your music sounds like you heard it. In the meantime, let's pray...
On the other hand, if you find other less cumbersome tips to work around the problem, share with the whole community, please ;)

Sorry for my english, I'm still french :lol: Stay strong, stay home :geek:
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X 32-Core, ASUS ROG Zenith II Extreme, 256GB RAM, RME HDSPe AIO, RTX 2080 Ti, Windows 10 (2004), Nuendo 10.3, Cubase 10.5.20, Dorico 3.5.10

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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by yayellou »

Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:00 pm
Hi,

Thank you very much yayellou for this!

If I understand you right, this means, the bug originally occurs only if the MIDI Note (and the articulation) is placed at the very beginning of the MIDI Part. Am I right?

If I'm right, could you attach a screenshot of your Preferences > MIDI settings, please? Actually I'm wondering about all parameters there.
Yes Martin, which page do you want, there are sereval tabs about MIDI, I send you pictures of course ;)
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by arieln »

Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:00 pm
If I understand you right, this means, the bug originally occurs only if the MIDI Note (and the articulation) is placed at the very beginning of the MIDI Part. Am I right?
I'm not sure that seems to be the case...
In the short clip i posted a few days back, the random switch is happening right in the middle of a playing note that it's somewhere in the middle of a MIDI Part.
The track wasn't armed, yet, It's very clear that Kontakt is receiving a midi message somehow.

Edit: The track is an instrument track, and i have one Kontakt instance per track, so no other tracks should be sending messages to that particular Kontakt instance.
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,
yayellou wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:52 pm
Yes Martin, which page do you want, there are sereval tabs about MIDI, I send you pictures of course ;)
Thank you. I mean the Preferences > MIDI. The root one. See attached screenshot, please.
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,
arieln wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:17 pm
I'm not sure that seems to be the case...
In the short clip i posted a few days back, the random switch is happening right in the middle of a playing note that it's somewhere in the middle of a MIDI Part.
The track wasn't armed, yet, It's very clear that Kontakt is receiving a midi message somehow.

Edit: The track is an instrument track, and i have one Kontakt instance per track, so no other tracks should be sending messages to that particular Kontakt instance.
Then it's interesting that the note, which is ahead of the MIDI Part helps here. Why?
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by arieln »

Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:36 pm
Hi,
arieln wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:17 pm
I'm not sure that seems to be the case...
In the short clip i posted a few days back, the random switch is happening right in the middle of a playing note that it's somewhere in the middle of a MIDI Part.
The track wasn't armed, yet, It's very clear that Kontakt is receiving a midi message somehow.

Edit: The track is an instrument track, and i have one Kontakt instance per track, so no other tracks should be sending messages to that particular Kontakt instance.
Then it's interesting that the note, which is ahead of the MIDI Part helps here. Why?
Hey Martin!, thanks for looking at all this.
Not sure to follow...in the short video, the articulation is supposed to be Pizzicato, and it starts ok, but then it switches to Arco for no apparent reason while playing.
Then, it never goes back to Pizzicato for the following notes either, all the green notes are supposed to play Pizzicato.
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,

Exactly, in this short video, I'm wondering if the yayellou's trick would help. If it would help, if there would be a MIDI Note ahead of the MIDI Part left border.
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by yayellou »

Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:55 am
Hi,

Exactly, in this short video, I'm wondering if the yayellou's trick would help. If it would help, if there would be a MIDI Note ahead of the MIDI Part left border.

All this fascinating and just as mysterious


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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by Martin.Jirsak »

Hi,
yayellou wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:42 pm
Martin, I send you pictures in MP
Thank you, you have the default/factory settings, as I can see.
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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by jonvog »

Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:55 am
Hi,

Exactly, in this short video, I'm wondering if the yayellou's trick would help. If it would help, if there would be a MIDI Note ahead of the MIDI Part left border.
Unfortunately yayellou's trick doesn't help in my case either... It seems like cubase would just "accidentally" loose some information on the way. Most of the time first everything plays back correctly and then after a few seconds issues start to occur.

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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by jonvog »

By the way: I just installed Cubase 10.0, and so far it works without hiccups. I guess it is a bug introduced in 10.5. Or is someone having these issues on 10.0 as well?

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Re: Cubase 10.5 randomly changes expression maps articulations on playback.

Post by arieln »

jonvog wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:39 pm
By the way: I just installed Cubase 10.0, and so far it works without hiccups. I guess it is a bug introduced in 10.5. Or is someone having these issues on 10.0 as well?
Same here, Cubase 10.0 works just fine, this started happening in 10.5.
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