Stereo plugins on mono tracks

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TiiTsei
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Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by TiiTsei »

This is one of my only major gripes with Cubase.

Any plugins inserted onto a mono audio track will result in the plugin being mono as well. For example a ping pong delay or autopan will just be mono, negating its effect. This is especially annoying with guitar or vocals, as there I often want to add some sort of stereo FX right on the track. You can record a mono signal to a stereo track, but then what's the use of the mono track?

Steinberg, please fix.

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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by svennilenni »

TiiTsei wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:09 pm
This is one of my only major gripes with Cubase.

Any plugins inserted onto a mono audio track will result in the plugin being mono as well. For example a ping pong delay or autopan will just be mono, negating its effect. This is especially annoying with guitar or vocals, as there I often want to add some sort of stereo FX right on the track. You can record a mono signal to a stereo track, but then what's the use of the mono track?

Steinberg, please fix.
There is Nothing to fix. A Mono track is mono and therefore anything that happens inside a mono track before the Output is also.

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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by Vinylizor »

It basically comes back to the age old request of not having separate mono and stereo (or surround) tracks - just have tracks which adapt as necessary.

Currently, if you have a mono track with lots of processing and automation, and you decide you want to add a stereo autopanner, you either have to recreate the track on a new stereo channel, or use a stereo group channel to work around the issue.

It's not end of the world to do this, but having tracks that auto adapt would be cool - so a valid feature request.
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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by mk1x86 »

Vinylizor wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:06 am
It's not end of the world to do this, but having tracks that auto adapt would be cool - so a valid feature request.
Or at least allow to change it on the fly...
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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by Prock »

No need for a mono track.... ever. Just record from your mono or stereo input bus to a stereo track.

To fix your vst effect issue just add a stereo audio track to your project and drag the events that are on the mono track to it.

Regards. 8-)
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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by Vinylizor »

Prock wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:40 pm
No need for a mono track.... ever. Just record from your mono or stereo input bus to a stereo track.

To fix your vst effect issue just add a stereo audio track to your project and drag the events that are on the mono track to it.

Regards. 8-)
This doesn't always work as some mono plugins screw up the LR balance on a stereo track. You can sometimes use the Routing Tab in the Channel Strip to fix plugins that do this by breaking the Right link, but not always.
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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by Prock »

Vinylizor wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 9:35 am
Prock wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:40 pm
No need for a mono track.... ever. Just record from your mono or stereo input bus to a stereo track.

To fix your vst effect issue just add a stereo audio track to your project and drag the events that are on the mono track to it.

Regards. 8-)
This doesn't always work as some mono plugins screw up the LR balance on a stereo track. You can sometimes use the Routing Tab in the Channel Strip to fix plugins that do this by breaking the Right link, but not always.
Interesting. I never experienced that. Do you have any examples of VSTs that act this way? I'd like to check it out.

Regards. 8-)
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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by Tarquam »

Prock wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 1:39 pm
Vinylizor wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 9:35 am
Prock wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:40 pm
No need for a mono track.... ever. Just record from your mono or stereo input bus to a stereo track.

To fix your vst effect issue just add a stereo audio track to your project and drag the events that are on the mono track to it.

Regards. 8-)
This doesn't always work as some mono plugins screw up the LR balance on a stereo track. You can sometimes use the Routing Tab in the Channel Strip to fix plugins that do this by breaking the Right link, but not always.
Interesting. I never experienced that. Do you have any examples of VSTs that act this way? I'd like to check it out.

Regards. 8-)
It's because mono plugins only handle the left channel

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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by Prock »

Tarquam wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 3:19 pm
Prock wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 1:39 pm
Vinylizor wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 9:35 am


This doesn't always work as some mono plugins screw up the LR balance on a stereo track. You can sometimes use the Routing Tab in the Channel Strip to fix plugins that do this by breaking the Right link, but not always.
Interesting. I never experienced that. Do you have any examples of VSTs that act this way? I'd like to check it out.

Regards. 8-)
It's because mono plugins only handle the left channel
I've never heard any issues with any of my VSTs and I never use mono audio tracks. Just confirming... I record a mono source through a mono input bus to a stereo audio track. The mono audio file that gets recorded is exactly the same as if recorded on a mono audio track. All of my mono and stereo VSTs sound fine when inserted on that stereo track and played back.

Again... if you know of a specific mono VST that dosen't work correctly when inserted on a stereo audio track recorded as previously mentioned please let me know so I try and compare. Thanks.

Regards. 8-)
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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by Vinylizor »

Anything by Waves - got the Renaissance Compressor for example?
Put a mono version on a stereo track with a mono audio file. As you increase the gain reduction the signal will track off to the left.
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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by Prock »

Vinylizor wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:47 pm
Anything by Waves - got the Renaissance Compressor for example?
Put a mono version on a stereo track with a mono audio file. As you increase the gain reduction the signal will track off to the left.
Thank you for your reply. I don't use any products from Waves. Maybe I have just been lucky with the VST products I own/use.

Just wondering... if you copied that same mono recording to a mono audio track and inserted the same Waves Renaissance Compressor on it, would it work correctly?

Regards. 8-)
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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by LesPaul2550 »

(message deleted) no real answers.
Last edited by LesPaul2550 on Tue May 14, 2019 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by Tarquam »

Really, anything by Waves or UAD that says to be mono. In fact, I think it's all VST2 plugins, because VST3 supports multichannel as needed

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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by svennilenni »

LesPaul2550 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 9:27 pm
In every other DAW I use there are 3 types of plugins. Mono2mono, Stereo2Stereo and Mono2Stereo. So what I’m getting from this thread is that Cubase doesn’t support mono to stereo plugins.
Yes it does. There is just no need for them in Cubase.

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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by LesPaul2550 »

(message deleted) Not getting an actual answer so I’m outta here. “Just learn it” isn’t an answer to the question. Thanks anyway though.
Last edited by LesPaul2550 on Tue May 14, 2019 4:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by svennilenni »

Vinylizor wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 9:35 am
Prock wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:40 pm
No need for a mono track.... ever. Just record from your mono or stereo input bus to a stereo track.

To fix your vst effect issue just add a stereo audio track to your project and drag the events that are on the mono track to it.

Regards. 8-)
This doesn't always work as some mono plugins screw up the LR balance on a stereo track. You can sometimes use the Routing Tab in the Channel Strip to fix plugins that do this by breaking the Right link, but not always.
Just like the other way round, you of course need to use stereo plugins in stereo tracks.

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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by svennilenni »

LesPaul2550 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:21 pm
Can you explain why I wouldn't want to use 1/3 of the plugins I own (the other two thirds being the mono2mono and stereo2stereo versions).
Because they are more or less useless. Since in Cubase a Mono track is a mono track, and a stereo track is a stereo track.
LesPaul2550 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:21 pm
I think if you had been able to use Mono2Stereo plugins you'd see why there's a need for them.
Learn Cubase and you will see why there is no need for them (in Cubase).
LesPaul2550 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:21 pm
One example... Let's say I track a vocal on a mono track and wanted to put a stereo chorus, reverb or delay on it without having to resort to bussing to another track. In Pro Tools and Sonar I would simply put the mono 2 stereo version of my favorite chorus plugin on the track. The track stays mono but the output immediately switches to stereo with separate left and right pan knobs just as if it had been a stereo track all along. I don't want to use a true stereo track because it's a mono source and I think it's really stupid and a waste of CPU and harddrive space to track mono sources in stereo (if that's what was suggested in another message above).
Now honestly: A mono track that ouputs a stereo signal is not a mono track - no matter what it says on the label. A Mono track as per definiton has one channel, and therefore can not output a stereo Signal. If it does, it processes two channels. That is not mono.
Apart from that, It is not a waste of Harddisk space, since recording a mono input bus bus will record a mono file, not a stereo file. That´s what was said above. Additionally you can save space since you don´t need 2/3 of your plugins anymore...
LesPaul2550 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:21 pm
I'm not trying to hassle, I'm just trying to figure out why a workflow I've been using for about two decades is not possible if I switch to Cubase. Any help would be appreciated.
Because that´s how Cubase (and many Consoles since more than 5 decades) are designed.

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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by Nuieve »

I don't know why mono tracks even still exist.

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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by Prock »

Nuieve wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 12:15 pm
I don't know why mono tracks even still exist.
I agree but, if you read further back you will see that some say that certain "mono" VSTs only work properly when inserted on a mono track. For my current use I have never seen/heard of this concern. So for me... I still never use a mono audio track and my mono VSTs work fine when I record a mono source through a mono input bus to a stereo track.

Regards 8-)
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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by svennilenni »

Prock wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:10 pm
I agree but, if you read further back you will see that some say that certain "mono" VSTs only work properly when inserted on a mono track. For my current use I have never seen/heard of this concern. So for me... I still never use a mono audio track and my mono VSTs work fine when I record a mono source through a mono input bus to a stereo track.

Regards 8-)
Do you explicitely use mono Plugins?

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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by peakae »

Yes exactly why I back in the day removed any of my mono plugins, and used their stereo counterparts.
Still on stereo tracks, but with a mono source.
Nowadays I don’t have any plugins that are mono, I haven’t encountered one in the last 10 years or more.
Today’s computer power makes it not worth the time and effort to create specific mono versions, is my guess.
So no I don’t think there is anything that needs to be addressed, in that regard.
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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by Prock »

svennilenni wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:37 pm
Prock wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:10 pm
I agree but, if you read further back you will see that some say that certain "mono" VSTs only work properly when inserted on a mono track. For my current use I have never seen/heard of this concern. So for me... I still never use a mono audio track and my mono VSTs work fine when I record a mono source through a mono input bus to a stereo track.

Regards 8-)
Do you explicitely use mono Plugins?
No... I use mostly stereo for sure as there are not many mono I would want. But I have used, for example "MonoDelay", which I figured was a mono VST without issue (as far as I can tell).

Regards. 8-)
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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by LesPaul2550 »

svennilenni, Thanks for your patience trying to explain your position to me. From what I’ve gathered from Prock’s message and others, you can put mono clips in a stereo track. Is that true? If so, THAT was the ACTUAL answer and solution to the question of Mono2Stereo support. Is this the case? And can you record a mono clip to a stereo track?

What confused me is this thread was a request for Mono2Stereo plugin support which means it doesn't have it. But you said, “Yes”, it does support them and then just said “learn it” as an answer. If, as you said, it does support them then why is this thread asking for M2S support? I hope you can see where your answer was so confusing. Mono2Stereo plugins are like the Fender RV6 reverb pedal for guitar (or like the Boss RE-20 Space Echo pedal I own). Plug a mono guitar into the input and you get a stereo output.

In Pro Tools and Sonar it’s the analog equivalent of putting an 1176 on the mono output of let’s say a vocal track coming off 2” tape into a console. Then plugging in a “Y” cable on the output of the 1176 to go into the left/right stereo inputs of an H3000 which then outputs back to the console maybe via a stereo FX return or back in on two channels hard panned. I used this example and gear selection because the big studio I also work with has such gear. Our console is a Sound Workshop Series 34 which doesn’t have stereo channels and must use two channels hard panned to return the stereo output of the Eventide back into the mix. That’s not like the workflow described in this thread in Cubase which is why I was asking questions. That’s how we learn, by asking. My eLicenser came in this morning (still have to go pick it up) so before I activate, I want to know if I’m letting myself in for disappointment. I didn’t realize Cubase needed workarounds for tasks that are more direct in Pro Tools. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve done nothing but criticize Avid for their mishandling of the PT product so I’m no fanboy of theirs. I’ve read the PT manual cover to cover and several times including after major updates and got my Pro Tools certification. That was before I started to do this for a living. Now, time is precious so I ask for a quick and dirty answer, not RTFM. I’ve skimmed through it but don’t have the time yet for a good month long study. As I’ve used Cakewalk since version 3 for Windows 3 and Pro Tools since version 6.x and the MIDI sequencer called Texture for DOS since 1987, I thought there would be enough similarities to dive right in. Seems not to be the case as far as signal routing. The Pro Tools paradigm can be used just like we use our real gear up at the commercial studio, complete with busses that mimic patch cables, aux tracks that mimic the 8 mono channels to the right of the center section of our real console. I always hated the way Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 and all Sonar versions implemented busses. They aren’t like regular tracks and don’t even share the same screen space. Seems like Cubase has some idiosyncrasies as well (as does EVERY DAW). Again though, thanks SO MUCH for your time and attempt to explain.

Sorry but I agree with the original poster, why not have Mono2Stereo plugins? What’s wrong with having more than one way to solve a problem and making Cubase appeal to an even larger audience? That’s also been my complaint about Sonar but just about the very last version ever released while still called Sonar, finally added “wiring” and Aux tracks which is identical to busses and Aux tracks in Pro Tools. I appreciate product flexibility for various workflows to suit the user, not the programmers. Why be against more? I’d be against a product that was less.

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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by steveecrane »

Here’s my penny’s worth in response to the general consensus and this in particular: “ There is Nothing to fix. A Mono track is mono and therefore anything that happens inside a mono track before the Output is also.”

- That’s not how an analogue desk with a stereo outboard delay would work, either as an Aux Send or an Insert!
Cheers,

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Re: Stereo plugins on mono tracks

Post by svennilenni »

steveecrane wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:29 am
Here’s my penny’s worth in response to the general consensus and this in particular: “ There is Nothing to fix. A Mono track is mono and therefore anything that happens inside a mono track before the Output is also.”

- That’s not how an analogue desk with a stereo outboard delay would work, either as an Aux Send or an Insert!
Unless I am misunderstanding you: Sure it is.

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