What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by wjoyce »

Vinylizor wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:39 am
A poor maintenance and update strategy.
Don't forget a startling disregard for users.
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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by take3 »

wjoyce wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:38 pm
Don't forget a startling disregard for users.
Not nearly as much as Ableton though. Nobody can compete with some of the requests for basic features that have been disregarded for over a decade. :D

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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by cubic13 »

Mybe they are implemented in a way or another in S1 or LP, but AFAIK, it's not the case. So, it seems strange to me that nobody has mentioned these four, yet :
- Generic remote definitions (even if it needs an overhaul, buggy as it is)
- Retrospective record (I started countless projects, during all these years, thanks to this one)
- External instruments handled as VSTis.
- Input tracks.
They are the main reasons why I keep using Cubase since 2003 (without counting pro24 and Cubase for ST, long before...). Beside this, well, the UI and the workflow that comes with it and a special mention to the Input tranformer (even if I would like it to be enhanced also, though).
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Soft & plug-ins : Cubase Pro 10.0.60 + 10.5.20 | VSTis : Emulator X3, Alchemy, Sylenth 1, Lounge Lizard, True Pianos, VB3, BFD2...
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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by Centralmusic »

...since Cubase has all the great features (more Inserts, Event FX, Bezier Automation Curves, One Window Handling, lower and right zone, new normal folder browser, browser VST pics, much more drag/drop! etc.) that made S1 great - S1 now has become superfluous...

And this is the best DAW mixer. No doubt.
Have a look:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9_BMvSmZaoY

!
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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by Centralmusic »

ensoniq_ts10 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:30 pm
Logic:

great GUI.
really? I hate it.
A greyish flat 2D GUI is not my taste.
ensoniq_ts10 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:30 pm
.
the best compressor.
I don't think so. A pretty nice looking GUI is deceiving here.
Even the emulations of the analog classic compressors have nothing to do with the originals. Sounds like plastic in most cases. Apple are great in GUI design.
ensoniq_ts10 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:30 pm
.
Logic is great for everything (beat making, scoring, recording editing mixing etc)
Nope.

Logic these days is more a tool for young beat and loop-the-loop producers.
Logic lags behind in film composing and sounddesign.
Logic has the worst and boring Mixer.
Logic has a big bug with latency bus compensation since decades. Have a look:
https://youtu.be/vhsm-jq_GhY
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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by Centralmusic »

I'm a former Logic X hardcore user.
Here are my

Logic CONS:

no Folder in Folder
-limited customization
-no multiple midi CC view
-very complicated way when dealing with Multitimbral instruments!!!! (aaargh)
- no channel strip FX
- 1 Movie per Track (oh man)
e.g.
When adding plugins there’s a very tiny bar for you to select.
labeled ‘No Plug-in’ to remove a plugin.
You can’t select it and hit delete. You can’t swipe it off.
actions like ‘Remove DC Offset’, ‘Reverse’ and ‘Normalize’ are only available in the file editor.
There’s on a single controller lane in the MIDI editor.
Logic has no easy ways to adjust butted midi notes, selections of midi notes or any other major ways to adjust MIDI data.
Logic has no Macro facility. There’s no integrated way to chain commands together to be triggered by a single key press.
Track folders, which are purely organization tools, can only be 1 layer deep. That means you can have a folder with tracks. You can not have folders within folders.
. You can not have summing stacks with summing stacks in them without some hacky workarounds that aren’t worth the effort.
I butt heads with this one constantly when working in Logic. Especially so when dealing with drumkits where I want a ‘Drums’ summing stack, and then a summing stack for snare (top/bottom mic) and kick (kick in, kick beater, front-of-kick). I want those kick and snare summing stacks inside the drum summing stack. No can do in Logic.
There is no way to search for a track in a project. If you want to find a track in Logic then you have to scroll, scroll, AND SCROLL.
No mixer reset, Can’t left/middle/right zone mixer channels, Tiny faders.
Logic does not appear to compensate this for automation correctly (see posting above). If you have a plugin that causes latency and automate parameters on it, then all of the automation will be out of time for the previous plugins. Bummer.
If you solo a track in a summing stack, then you hear all the tracks in the summing stack, not the track you soloed.
There’s no way quickly bypassing a row or column of plugins. There’s no way to bypass all plugins in a project either.
You can already adjust the gain of a clip by adjusting the ‘Gain’ box in the track inspector, but that is not very convenient.
Single layer VCA's only.
Communicating with Apple about issues with Logic is basically not possible unless you are a tester. You simply submit your issue in to a black box and wait. Rarely you may get a response, but that almost never happens...

Generally I find that both DAWs can accomplish the same things but....
I find Cubase to be more intuitive, particularly with multitimbral instruments and advanced MIDI editing.

I find the built-in channel audio tools to be more useful; EQ and compression are more transparent sounding and the saturation tools are quite good.

One BIG difference is audio editing. I always HATED editing audio in Logic but in Cubase it's quite slick.

Movie bounce sometimes making the audio all white noise, Logic's inability to use negative bar numbers without crashing, hard-to-wrangle automation, its wonky way of using multi-timbre instruments, its infuriatingly weird mixer that doesn't respond to edit window track order, and sometimes the tracks just move to a completely different position and you can't move them back, the piano roll's lack of multiple CC lanes, a lack of an elegant way of editing MIDI data, a convoluted process when it comes to moving video or altering timecodes. And way more.

Cubase has note names in each of the roll events (but Logic has this now as well)
C. has multiple CC lanes in the editors
Piano Roll in each Arrange region
C has expression Maps, or rather: Everything related to articulations/CCs/Kontakt/ VI automation seems better in C (except that Logic has "Articulation ID" tags on a per note basis - which would great if it could be used directly with Kontakt libraries w/o third need for 3rd part products)
Better time stretching algorithm - although personally, I hardly work with audio files anymore
ASIO Direct Monitoring
The Control Room feature
Development Speed (there hasn't been any major updates that's relevant for what I fond most important in Logic for several years, and the Mac Pro and MacBook Pro development isn't really happening either)
Audio to MIDI which translates pitch bends /vibrato/volume
Steinberg has a large staff working on Dorico ( new score editor), and Cubase and Dorico will hopefully be integrated
A better freeze which unloads/reloads Kontakt samples + partial freeze
Uncluttered automation view (nodes are only shown when you need them)
Auto Track Colour mode
Can switch/load/save preference files from the pref. area
Cubase seems to have a lot more key commands
And, in theory (and this used to be important to me): Global preset banks for external MIDI gear. It's just that I only work with sample libraries now - my old synths are collecting dust. So that feature isn't important for me anymore.

Audio editing IMO far superior in Cubase. I find sample editor in Logic horrible. Multiple tracks fade out in Cubase is as easy as selecting the tracks and dragging. In logic you have to use a tool and you can perform a fade in one track at a time
Variaudio built in pitch correction. No plugins, no offline rendering in the background.
Proper vu meters in the mixer
Offline effects processing (DOP is DOPE!)
Better pitch shift/time stretch algorithms by far (elastique)
For me midi workflow is better in Cubase. VST expression is a timesaver if you work with libraries.
Cubase has Volume adjustment on the audio event itself. Saves me a TON of time.

Cubase has - Expression Maps. No one else does this and they're so awesome and so invaluable to composers
- the score view. I know many people don't use this but after diving deeply into it I was shocked at how powerful it is, and how easy it is to get professional looking scores once it's all set up.
- Notes in the piano roll view. Multiple controller lanes. The mixer. The Media Bay. Track visibility controls. Mixer view sets and visibility control. The amazing export window for stem bouncing. The Logical Editor!

Cubase: MIDI is better, Audio is better, CPU is the same (yes it is with ASIO GUARD (OSX here)


C.
!!! NOTE: This is a user forum. It's from users to users. This is not a technical support forum. Therefore sometime some Steinberg employees appear here and help the users. !!!
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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by etchell »

A great feature of SO is the option to have more than one installation (if I am correct, they allow 4 activations?)
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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by Centralmusic »

etchell wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:05 am
A great feature of SO is the option to have more than one installation (if I am correct, they allow 4 activations?)
Do you have 4 studios or 4 audio work places..?
^^
Do you work simultaneously with 4 daws..?
^^


I can install cubase thousands times - on each OS and both important platforms.
And the tiny little dongle USB stick is not a problem in studios.

(nobody can tell me that he mixes in the subway or in the train/bus/plane/beach/forest...)


BTW, Cubase Elements is ideal for on the go respectively for Notebooks/MacBooks.
And CE works completely without a dongle (!) CE .cpr projects can be imported 1: 1 in Cubase Pro.
completely relaxed solution, IMHO.
!!! NOTE: This is a user forum. It's from users to users. This is not a technical support forum. Therefore sometime some Steinberg employees appear here and help the users. !!!
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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by ensoniq_ts10 »

the new overlay EQ in cubase 10.5 is an amazing feature. No other daw has this, most daws don’t even have built in eq in every channel.

Thank you centralmusic for your post about Logic cons, since I was very seriously considering moving to Logic, atleast for the instrumental / virtual instruments production part.
I wish Logic was re-wireable so it can me used as rewire instrument in cubase,
because I really like Logic’s drummer, virtual instruments, auto-sampler, loop and sample content, and the compressor. My favorite part about Logic’s compressor is that you can dial in one of the compressor models and then switch thru different models while retaining all the settings.
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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by Centralmusic »

ensoniq_ts10 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:47 am
the new overlay EQ in cubase 10.5 is an amazing feature. No other daw has this, most daws don’t even have built in eq in every channel.

Thank you centralmusic for your post about Logic cons, since I was very seriously considering moving to Logic, atleast for the instrumental / virtual instruments production part.
I wish Logic was re-wireable so it can me used as rewire instrument in cubase,
because I really like Logic’s drummer, virtual instruments, auto-sampler, loop and sample content, and the compressor. My favorite part about Logic’s compressor is that you can dial in one of the compressor models and then switch thru different models while retaining all the settings.
Hi Ensoniq_ts10,

yes, that is absolutely right. These are...

Logic Pro PROS:

thousands of GB´s included samples, apple loops until suffocation, nice presets content, a wide range of onboard effect plugins, a great easy-on-the-fly drummer, and a big bunch of professional sounding VI synths.
The new samplers - easy to handle, auto sampling with best daw integration. With the latest Logic version, an ableton live style clip launcher was added. Nice to have, why not, everyone works differently.


But I have to admit, I for myself can't work with a clip launcher thingy. It's not my way to produce music with ready-to-go apple loops and "clip mute on / off". (hint: formulated somewhat exaggerated)
I also have many very high end VI synths such as Dune, U-He stuff, Serum, Arturia, Korg, NI Komplete Ultimate, e.g. Steinberg´s wonderful Halion is my to go sampler. Not to forget the high quality sample libraries that I own. So I am well positioned.

For me, the workflow and the features of a daw are crucial - and not included content. :idea:

(BUT: let's not forget that Steinberg builds better and better synths and samplers! (Padshop and Retrologue are hi end stuff!) and Cubase´s effect plugins are really professional to use - you don't even need external tools to produce high-quality music).

Anyway. That's why I switched from Logic to Cubase.



Note:
+++ No daw is bad these days ! +++ There is something for every taste, every wallet size and every style of music. Each one has its own philosophy and its own set of power users that make it look like an A++ program.

"These are great days we're living in, bros..."
!!! NOTE: This is a user forum. It's from users to users. This is not a technical support forum. Therefore sometime some Steinberg employees appear here and help the users. !!!
"Do you already know the manual?"
Kennst du schon das Handbuch?"

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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by stratquebec »

I wish Cubase had a Drummer like the Logic Pro X Drummer and especially its Follow feature. Wow, that's great. Groove Agent's player can't simply do that. Isn't it?
In Logic, create a Drummer track.
1.Record a bass track (or drag a bass apple-loop in the arrange)
2.Active the Follow feature in the Drummer interface and choose Bass. Wow! The Drummer is listening!
3.Edit your bass take (or choose another loop) Wow!

Repeat 1,2 and 3 with a guitar part or a keyboard part and listen to the drums!

Magic!
Oh, and this Follow feature is even included in the free desktop and iPadOs Garageband.
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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by etchell »

Centralmusic wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:15 pm
etchell wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:05 am
A great feature of SO is the option to have more than one installation (if I am correct, they allow 4 activations?)
Do you have 4 studios or 4 audio work places..?
^^
Do you work simultaneously with 4 daws..?
^^
[...]
I have 4 Audio Workplaces, indeed.

1 Main DAW
1 Laptop
1 "Playground" to quickly record ideas which is in my working office place
1 Recording location with nice acoustic where I like to record my classic guitar for instance

And I do not want to carry my dongle every time. I want to be flexible and do not have to plan my recordings and if you carry your precious dongle around all the time and one day you lost it....well

Be happy with the dongle, I like anyway the option to have more than one installation of my application
Other companies give you also this opportunity with their VST applications.

AND, now Studio One 5 is out and even the basic version has now VST support. Hence I may not need Cubase anymore on the other 3 recording sites but perhaps I may even not need Cubase at all one day. Looking forward to Black Friday...
Main Studio System
Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit - 1909 - 32 GB RAM - Intel Xeon E3-1231v3 - RME Fireface UC - Samsung SSD 860 EVO (SATA 6) 250GB (System & Cubase + 3rd Party VST(i))
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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by WalterP »

The extra workplaces also come in really handy when you are doing a lot of collaborations with other humans. S1 is great for a lot of things. but the more MIDI you do. and especially the more MIDI you do with hardware instruments which it's allergic to, the worse it looks in comparison with Logic and Cubase. For basic audio and light MIDI, it's quick and slick. No hiccups, you can do things while audio is playing, and ARA has worked well for five years.

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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by cparmerlee »

Studio One lacks forward compatibility. This is a huge inhibitor to collaboration. If you have only S1 V5 and your collaborator has only S1 V4, you cannot save any song or project files the collaborator can open. Presonus has done so many things well, this seems like a monumental blunder.

In 2020 (really even back in 2000) there is no excuse for not making your data file architecture future-proofed. Dorico does this well. Any Dorico version can open any *.Dorico file. If there are features your installed version doesn't recognize, then those are dropped, ignored, set to defaults or whatever, but the file opens and is fully capable for your installed release. I am newer to Cubase, but that seems to be the way Cubase works also.

I can't believe Presonus doesn't get this. Today's music (both song creation and recording/mixing) is all about collaboration, and especially so in a COVID-19 world.
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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by WalterP »

cparmerlee wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:48 pm
Studio One lacks forward compatibility. This is a huge inhibitor to collaboration. If you have only S1 V5 and your collaborator has only S1 V4, you cannot save any song or project files the collaborator can open. Presonus has done so many things well, this seems like a monumental blunder.

In 2020 (really even back in 2000) there is no excuse for not making your data file architecture future-proofed. Dorico does this well. Any Dorico version can open any *.Dorico file. If there are features your installed version doesn't recognize, then those are dropped, ignored, set to defaults or whatever, but the file opens and is fully capable for your installed release. I am newer to Cubase, but that seems to be the way Cubase works also.

I can't believe Presonus doesn't get this. Today's music (both song creation and recording/mixing) is all about collaboration, and especially so in a COVID-19 world.
Ah, guess everyone was indeed on the same version when I collaborated with other humans. Which doesn't make the other allocations completely useless -- you can do a lot of collaboration before someone changes versions. You could also "take back" an allocation from someone you're no longer working with and give it to someone you are.

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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by cparmerlee »

WalterP wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:14 pm
Ah, guess everyone was indeed on the same version when I collaborated with other humans. Which doesn't make the other allocations completely useless -- you can do a lot of collaboration before someone changes versions. You could also "take back" an allocation from someone you're no longer working with and give it to someone you are.
Yes, those are options. And maybe that is why Presonus feels like they need to be more liberal in their licensing. Nonetheless, I find it a very undesirable restriction.

Here is a real world example. I am halfway through a project that I am supposed to be turning over to a friend who has S1 V4. This was to be an opportunity for him to dig in to learn S1. He bought the V4 license awhile back but never got around to learning it.

I just paid to upgrade my V3 to V4, specifically so I could do this particular collaboration. If not for that, I would probably have remained at V3.

Once V5 was announced, I was entitled to a free upgrade to V5 because my V4 upgrade was so recent. So naturally I upgraded to the latest version. I had finished my work for the collaboration before upgrading. So in this case, I can send the V4 material to my friend when he is ready. But if I need to do any further work on it, I MUST do that in V4 because there will be no way to do it in V5 and still save in a form my friend can open. I really don't want to juggle my 5 licenses and I doubt my friend wants to spend any more money on upgrades until he has the time to really immerse himself in the technology.
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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by Centralmusic »

ok...
S1 V5 is now on the market.

well, as you can see - Presonus is only stealing good features from other daws AGAIN... :roll:
Where are the innovations...? ARA was the only one, it seems so...

3/4 of the "Studio One V5" features comes from > Cubase !!! :?

Artikulations
Clip-Gain Volume Envelope Events
Listen Bus
Mixer Scences
MTC/MMC Synchronisation
Score Editor
Gleichzeitige Nutzung mehrer Editoren
Tape Algorithm
Marker Track Inspektor
Sidechain for all dynamic effects
ProEQ2 Analyser and Linear Phase Low Cut
e.g.

:shock:

Then you can use the Original called Cubase. :mrgreen:

:lol:


BTW, don´t forget that great innovations mostly come from steinberg, like Control Room, VST3, Midi Expressions, Note Expressions, Vari Audio, Chord Track, Arranger Track, easy Sampler Track, Media Bay, modern flexible Mix Console, etc. etc.


kind regards,
C.
!!! NOTE: This is a user forum. It's from users to users. This is not a technical support forum. Therefore sometime some Steinberg employees appear here and help the users. !!!
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Kennst du schon das Handbuch?"

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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by ozinga »

SO Clip Gain is more like PT with multiple break points without the need of splitting the region. Hope to see that in 11
The regular one was there from the beginning.
Other than that SO mostly shines with great and simple workflow, more advanced drag and drop, and a few very useful unique features.
Of course if you make a feature by feature comparison SO is still behind. It all depends how much of the features someone needs or uses.
I have been using it since V1 after starting with Cubase on Atari and moving to Logic. Last couple of months I went between Logic and Cubase again and decided on Cubase. For me the workflow and easiness of SO was hard to give up though.

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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by WalterP »

ozinga wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:55 pm
SO Clip Gain is more like PT with multiple break points without the need of splitting the region. Hope to see that in 11
The regular one was there from the beginning.
Other than that SO mostly shines with great and simple workflow, more advanced drag and drop, and a few very useful unique features.
Of course if you make a feature by feature comparison SO is still behind. It all depends how much of the features someone needs or uses.
I have been using it since V1 after starting with Cubase on Atari and moving to Logic. Last couple of months I went between Logic and Cubase again and decided on Cubase. For me the workflow and easiness of SO was hard to give up though.
There's not much you can't do if you have both Cubase and S1. No one's ever going to be totally satisfied with just one DAW because it's impossible to write and maintain the code for a perfect DAW. I'm going to get the latest Cubase Pro and stick with S1 2.6 which epitomizes streamlined ease of use for things like using Melodyne ARA to tune vocals (if I don't get on with the Cubase vocal tools, though I hear good things about the tuning even if the auto-align may be more questionable than Vocalign/Revoice). It's really child's play to do simple or medium productions in even my 7-year old S1. With Cubase Pro, then I'll be able to get exotic with MIDI and "have it all."

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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by Electrochimp »

ozinga wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:01 am
Macro Control of multiple parameters
Screen Shot 2020-06-20 at 10.59.39.png
Would LOVE Cubase to develop this. One of my fave features in Ableton. Didnt realise other DAWs doing it too. Fingers crossed for C11...

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Re: What does cubase have that Studio one and logic doesn't

Post by TheDude »

Centralmusic wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:01 pm
ok...
S1 V5 is now on the market.

well, as you can see - Presonus is only stealing good features from other daws AGAIN... :roll:
Where are the innovations...? ARA was the only one, it seems so...

3/4 of the "Studio One V5" features comes from > Cubase !!! :?

Artikulations
Clip-Gain Volume Envelope Events
Listen Bus
Mixer Scences
MTC/MMC Synchronisation
Score Editor
Gleichzeitige Nutzung mehrer Editoren
Tape Algorithm
Marker Track Inspektor
Sidechain for all dynamic effects
ProEQ2 Analyser and Linear Phase Low Cut
e.g.

:shock:

Then you can use the Original called Cubase. :mrgreen:

:lol:


BTW, don´t forget that great innovations mostly come from steinberg, like Control Room, VST3, Midi Expressions, Note Expressions, Vari Audio, Chord Track, Arranger Track, easy Sampler Track, Media Bay, modern flexible Mix Console, etc. etc.


kind regards,
C.


Hi,

It is very true - Cubase is a mature and fully featured DAW with lots of bells and whistles. However, a DAW is just a tool (at least for me) - convenience (great UX) is where my money goes. I mostly care about getting the same (or better) results in a faster/easier way.
Steinberg developers might have been the 1st with some features, but people at Presonus made them a joy to use.

If the innovative features in Cubase wouldn’t be left in their infancy for years, then there would be fewer reasons to whine about them and check out the other DAWs as a result.

Just a perspective.


Best Regards,
TheDude

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