Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

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Fräulein Rührig
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Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by Fräulein Rührig »

It would be great to have the possibility to have multiple Arrangements in one Song and (at least) one arrangement can be visible and editable by vertical split-screen.
This feature is part of Studio One and is described here: https://youtu.be/ZALHeAeOjM4?t=197
I have tested Studio One and this feature is great for arranging or organizing your ideas and can have a deep impact on your workflow (especially for complex and/or long arrangements). Track Versions, which is a great feature too, is imho no substitute.
This has been requested once before in the forum for Cubase 8: viewtopic.php?f=228&t=80142&p=455350&hi ... ch#p455350

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Re: Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by mozizo »

+1
great facility to experiment with and create song versions
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ResonantMind
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Re: Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by ResonantMind »

Fräulein Rührig wrote:It would be great to have the possibility to have multiple Arrangements in one Song and (at least) one arrangement can be visible and editable by vertical split-screen.
This feature is part of Studio One and is described here: https://youtu.be/ZALHeAeOjM4?t=197
I have tested Studio One and this feature is great for arranging or organizing your ideas and can have a deep impact on your workflow (especially for complex and/or long arrangements). Track Versions, which is a great feature too, is imho no substitute.
This has been requested once before in the forum for Cubase 8: viewtopic.php?f=228&t=80142&p=455350&hi ... ch#p455350
Have you looked into doing this with the Arranger Track?

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Re: Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by Fräulein Rührig »

@ResonantMind
Yes. The Arranger Track is a great feature for changing the song structure of a arrangement timewise or build up a simple common song structure (with many repetitions) from scratch. But if you are building up a new piece of music with no predefined common song structure (e.g. film music) you do have to do a lot of clicking using the Arranger Track. The 'scratch pad' is more like a warehouse for your musical material, which can be shown and used on every position, to build up your song.
Okay, there are workarounds in cubase like copying your arrangement-ideas to different positions on the timeline or save these arrangements as songs and open them beside the "main" song unactivated. But there are many downsides beside the lack of convenience.
Hope that answers your question.
Cheers

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Re: Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by ResonantMind »

Fräulein Rührig wrote:@ResonantMind
Yes. The Arranger Track is a great feature for changing the song structure of a arrangement timewise or build up a simple common song structure (with many repetitions) from scratch. But if you are building up a new piece of music with no predefined common song structure (e.g. film music) you do have to do a lot of clicking using the Arranger Track. The 'scratch pad' is more like a warehouse for your musical material, which can be shown and used on every position, to build up your song.
Okay, there are workarounds in cubase like copying your arrangement-ideas to different positions on the timeline or save these arrangements as songs and open them beside the "main" song unactivated. But there are many downsides beside the lack of convenience.
Hope that answers your question.
Cheers
Can you maybe create a visualization of what you are talking about? Do you mean a way of indexing all your material and ideas and being able to summon certain parts, insert them, etc?

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Re: Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by uarte »

Definite +1

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ANeeman
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Re: Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by ANeeman »

Firstly, the Arranger track have arrangement chains. Make one chain for each version of song. Therefore there is only one Arranger track possible.

Secondly, if I have 30 instruments in one version of song and 30 instruments in other version where half or more of them are different, then it will be inadequate use of resources if I load one project with 45 instruments and working only with 30 of them for current version. And if there will be version Nr.10... Maybe disable instruments for all versions except current? It will take too much time. Better is working with multiple files.

Now we can open two or more projects. Yes, only one can be active. The reason is the same - load of memory. But you can copy events from inactive project to your active project and arrange every next version as you wish. I do that and you know - bones are not broken ;)

Working with multiple files allow me to backup only current project, not all mix versions every time when something changed in one version as it would be with scratchpad feature. This last aspect is strong enough not to disturb programmers and let them work on current issues and features that makes Cubase better and better.

Of course scratchpad feature will not deny workflow with multiple files, but I just explain the things I understand.
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mozizo
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Re: Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by mozizo »

ANeeman wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:30 pm
Firstly, the Arranger track have arrangement chains. Make one chain for each version of song. Therefore there is only one Arranger track possible.

Secondly, if I have 30 instruments in one version of song and 30 instruments in other version where half or more of them are different, then it will be inadequate use of resources if I load one project with 45 instruments and working only with 30 of them for current version. And if there will be version Nr.10... Maybe disable instruments for all versions except current? It will take too much time. Better is working with multiple files.

Now we can open two or more projects. Yes, only one can be active. The reason is the same - load of memory. But you can copy events from inactive project to your active project and arrange every next version as you wish. I do that and you know - bones are not broken ;)

Working with multiple files allow me to backup only current project, not all mix versions every time when something changed in one version as it would be with scratchpad feature. This last aspect is strong enough not to disturb programmers and let them work on current issues and features that makes Cubase better and better.

Of course scratchpad feature will not deny workflow with multiple files, but I just explain the things I understand.
its a great feature for some of us,i work with some guys that can change structure,transpose,edit here and there and lot of tedious changes(maybe i should not work with them but its another issue :x ;) ) i end up with 6 versions of a song in a project,and/or multiple projects of the song that need to be loaded frequently.
arranger track cant help here,scratch pad can help a lot.
in ideal world we wont need comp lanes,track versions,etc.. they all can be lead to confusion,but ones you got it you have to have it.))
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Re: Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by jules »

+1. Requesting this scratch pad thing since it was introduced in studio one.
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Re: Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by orchetect »

There's a related feature request for a chunks-style feature like what Digital Performer has had for years. Hopefully one day we can have a mix/compromise between these chunks/scratch pad features because it would revolutionize and speed up my workflow a lot.
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Re: Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by maxchristensen »

Definite +1. This feature almost made me switch to Studio One but I´m too invested in Cubase. If you could implement this I´d be a happy man

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Re: Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by In_Stereo »

+1 A very big advantage for Studio One, and also Pro Tools with its edit groups (one of the greatest ideas for any DAW - it really saves gigantic amounts of time and is one of the greatest things for workflow).
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Fräulein Rührig
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Re: Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by Fräulein Rührig »

maxchristensen wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 12:31 pm
Definite +1. This feature almost made me switch to Studio One but I´m too invested in Cubase. If you could implement this I´d be a happy man
Same here. I've always hoped Steinberg could implement this feature soon, because as far as I know some developers of Studio One are former Steinberg employees. But I've to admit that implementing "Colorized Mixer Channels" is probably easier;)

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Re: Scratch Pad/ multiple Arrangements in one Song

Post by mozizo »

Fräulein Rührig wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:46 pm
maxchristensen wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 12:31 pm
Definite +1. This feature almost made me switch to Studio One but I´m too invested in Cubase. If you could implement this I´d be a happy man
Same here. I've always hoped Steinberg could implement this feature soon, because as far as I know some developers of Studio One are former Steinberg employees. But I've to admit that implementing "Colorized Mixer Channels" is probably easier;)
one day,one day... and years go by :roll: the scratch pad in studio one is brilliant,and has many advantages on arranging a song and keep ideas with clean projects.things at steinberg seems to take so long to develop(if they consider scratch pad at all).
i wonder if its steinberg's strategy not to have many features in a given update or they can't keep up the DAW race,i feel other daws(at least SO5 )already give more features{that i need in everyday use} ) and modern environment for fast and mass editing and develop faster in each update with practical ideas and tools.
hope cubase 11 really close the gap (and gapless audio if talking about gaps between modern DAWs)
in last years steinberg seems more responsive to users needs and cubase development is ongoing,but yet i feel its still lags.but maybe its only me :|
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