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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:35 pm
by noiseboyuk
Is there any news on any of this? Have Steinberg ever hinted that they're working on a way to actually make use of the higher-core-count processors? Not all DAWs are limited in this way, after all.

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:29 am
by Larioso
Haven't read the full thread, so bear with me.

I have really nice even load in Cubase on 8 cores(i7 quadcore with hyperthreading).

But have issues with other stuff in computer that in regular intervals do things that cause crackle at playback, or if recording it stops and give message of dropout.

I have eliminated a bunch of software that do scheduled stuff, like first 20 minutes after boot and similar, various checks for updates even though no network is up etc. But still have an ongoing one - every hour, on 5 seconds distance - that cause this problem still. Repeatable - next boot - take note of when booted up - and within two minutes from that first dropout will appear, and then on 5-10s from that point - all day through.

Spent full day yesterday and still see no immediate cpu increase on any running service or process overall. Gone through all scheduled tasks and nothing. Run auditing to see what processes start and exit - and still nothing.

Next step is to run process explorer and see if any thread in Cubase itself?
I have no autosave on jobs active.

I have this thread a bit below about this - if there is a setting and Cubase it too sensitive to dropouts loosing the sync?

I remember Sonar has such a setting how long dropout should make transport stop.

I will make a test today with Sonar and see if in computer something can disturb audio enough - without obvious jump in cpu.
I filmed task manager in both process explorer and task manager to see when it happends.

Other tips from me
a) Task scheduler in Administrative tools - there you have a good bunch of things that are triggered on various events.
There I found most of disturbances.
b) Security soemthing, also in Administrative tools - auditing can be help to narrow down if dropout occur to a process that is started on scheduled stuff. Look both in Local Audit and Advanced audit to enable those - process tracking, I think it was called.

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:21 am
by Jari Junttila
@Larioso
Nvidia drivers are the worst, check it and try different versions. Latest doesn´t always mean best, as we´ve seen with Steinberg´s update

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:25 am
by Larioso
Jari Junttila wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:21 am
@Larioso
Nvidia drivers are the worst, check it and try different versions. Latest doesn´t always mean best, as we´ve seen with Steinberg´s update
Thank you, have not updated since in spring some time, but will update and see if any difference.
I removed a full bunch of Nvidia stuff in Task Scheduler, that was already disabled since long - in msconfig Startup.

I tested right now in Sonar - no problem at all, Continuous record and no sign of dropouts.

I sense that Cubase is very sensitive in how it intercept it looses sync?

Have set audio to boost after my testa started, and also Steinberg power scheme - no difference.

About to test setting External sync on - where Cubase allow samplerate to run from another source - will see if any difference.

EDIT: No change on this, external clock become the same
And it comes on the second hourly from the first system event log for the day, about windows starting up.
So something is scheduled then - and create a problem in Cubase - mark not Sonar - only Cubase.

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:44 am
by gravehill
So does the registry fix solve the problem now? I'm planning a new computer build and I'm thinking of i9 9900k (8 core, 16 thread). Would it be totally pointless if we need to disable 2 threads anyway?

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:48 am
by noiseboyuk
gravehill wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:44 am
So does the registry fix solve the problem now? I'm planning a new computer build and I'm thinking of i9 9900k (8 core, 16 thread). Would it be totally pointless if we need to disable 2 threads anyway?
To the best of my knowledge, the registry fix makes things more stable but yes you're abandoning anything over 7 cores with hyperthreading. So this new Basin Falls range is largely a waste of time for Cubase users. Really hoping C10 changes something in the Audio Engine to get round this... the registry "fix" is certainly no long term solution and Steinberg will be making themselves increasingly irrelevant if Cubase can't use new technology.

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:55 am
by Steinberg
The registry key is meant to overcome the limitation set to 32 MMCSS, it is not limiting to any arbitrary number of cores, be it 7 or anything else - on the contrary, it allows to use all available cores/threads.
The audioengine.properties file is the only work-around limiting the amount of used cores (to 14)

However, the audio engine in Cubase 10 already changes this.

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:08 pm
by Jari Junttila
Thank for the clarification

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:40 pm
by Transistor
Fabio Bartolini wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:55 am
However, the audio engine in Cubase 10 already changes this.
Excellent news. Pre-christmas release I hope?

r,
j,

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:31 am
by faaraotron
So did I understand it right. When cubase 10 arrives it is now possible to get a processor that has for example 20 cores? And it will work right.

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:13 pm
by fretthefret
Fabio Bartolini wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:55 am
The registry key is meant to overcome the limitation set to 32 MMCSS, it is not limiting to any arbitrary number of cores, be it 7 or anything else - on the contrary, it allows to use all available cores/threads.
The audioengine.properties file is the only work-around limiting the amount of used cores (to 14)

However, the audio engine in Cubase 10 already changes this.
Could you also program the installer to check for the older 1.9.x Yamaha USB driver and update to the latest >1.10.x where needed when Steinberg hardware is used on the system?
This is important for CPU load and preventing constant peak even with no project loaded under WIn 10 180x.

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:57 am
by StefK
Fabio Bartolini wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:55 am
However, the audio engine in Cubase 10 already changes this.
nice one!

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:01 pm
by Brandy
After I found out that C10 is really nice in my first tests I am just building a new machine feat the new 9900K - with 8 cores and 16 logical cores.

Unfortunately I stepped over a bug in C10 (hitpoints are broken!!) which unfortunately needs me to wait with switching to C10.

What is the best procedure to run C9.5 (recording, editing) and C10 (mixing) on this machine?
Just switching of HT in the bios? I found that C9.5 barely use the HT-extra cores.. so this might not make a huge difference .. When C10 is fixed I should easily be able to switch on HT again?

In older days I had the experience that Cubase never made much use out of the extra HT cores, but the overall performance of the system was a bit snappier - maybe because Win used the extra Cores for some stuff in high-load situation.

Sorry when this is OT, maybe one can direct me to a topic dealing with 16 cores / Win10 / C9.5...?

To stay On Topic: I will do some intense testing with high load projects in C10 running 16 cores - of cores :) I am corious :) My current project is around 850 audio/group tracks and I need juice thats why I am upgrading..

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:03 pm
by Brandy
Brandy wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:01 pm


Sorry when this is OT, maybe one can direct me to a topic dealing with 16 cores / Win10 / C9.5...?
ah, one second, maybe I mixed it up we are in the C9 board ATM.. it would be OT in the topic featured in the C10 board :)


.. when I switch of HT in the bios.. does this affect anything in W10 which needs to be changed? In other words:

Could it be a solution to just switch of HT in the bios when in recording sessions and when needing some extra juice in a C10 mix I switch on, reboot?!

I do not want to edit the registry on that fresh system because the days of (very wonderful) C9x are counted - at least when C10 is fixed..

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:21 pm
by Brandy
Ok, maybe the better idea ist to disabling one physical Core (2 logical cores) in the bios?

Will this fix these issues I have to expect in Win10 running C9.5 on a 8/16 core system?

I am new to Win10, I am still using Win7 and have Zero issues.. 6 physical cores, 12 with HT..

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:02 am
by Qiwibird
Just for the record for anyone else looking for big fast multicore solution that really works, the other rig I have runs a Xeon 14 core 2673v3 and windows 7 and it is flawless. 25% cpu on a huge template 1700 tracks with VSL EP and CB9 running on the same machine. What an idiot I am! Should have stuck with that.

I think Steinberg should really think about putting this warning in the tech requirements as more and more W10 i9 multicore computers wont run CB. Currently their tech requirements are simply not true.

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:45 pm
by Joss
Qiwibird wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:02 am
I think Steinberg should really think about putting this warning in the tech requirements as more and more W10 i9 multicore computers wont run CB. Currently their tech requirements are simply not true.
To be fair, I am running w10 on a 14-core i9, and since 10.5 and keeping Turboboost turned off, I am running fine. Even with a huge Hollywood Orchestra template based on Hans Zimmerman's template.

I am not getting spikes or dropouts at the moment.

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:49 am
by VargerKron
Hello, everyone. Have someone found the solution for the problem? Because there are still performance issues with cubase 10,5 with overloaded performance meter and task manager showing only 20 per cent of cpu load.

Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:06 pm
by ntsarb
VargerKron wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:49 am
Hello, everyone. Have someone found the solution for the problem? Because there are still performance issues with cubase 10,5 with overloaded performance meter and task manager showing only 20 per cent of cpu load.
There are several posts, with long lists of system configuration settings (some for UEFI, others for Windows 10) to customise yoyr system for Cubase, but they're only useful if you need your computer just for Cubase and nothing else.

On a 10-core i9, I get spikes and dropouts even with a single track project (which I used only for testing). My system features 32GB Ram, m.2 ssd, 4x nvidia gpus (for 3d rendering), 5x Sata HDDs and a Thunderbolt card, on an Asus X299 Sage Workstation motherboard.

Looks like Windows 10 is not good at managing resources efficiently, or Cubase doesn't make good use of the operating system's capabilities, or both are true. Can't be sure....