Tutorial video: Lead Sheet and Transpositions

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windrag
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Tutorial video: Lead Sheet and Transpositions

Post by windrag »

Is there a video that demonstrates creating transpositions from a lead sheet? I am trying to figure this out from piecing together information from multiple videos, and I'm having no luck. Every command that I expect to do what I want does not do what I want.

For example, on the advice of others, I created a new layout which included the flow created for the lead sheet. I then attempted to apply various transpositions and clef overrides in Setup, which had no effect on the resulting music in the layout.

Is there a video that walks one through, step by step:

- Creating a lead sheet;
- Creating a new layout of the same music in Bass Clef (for example);
- Creating a new layout of the same music in Bb (for Saxophone or Clarinet, for example).

I know that I can create new players, copy the music from the first player to the new players, and then work with those pieces of music. But my understanding is that I can achieve the same result more quickly by creating layouts from the original part.

Apologies if this has been covered in depth, but search in the forums and in the documentation have not revealed this process.

EDIT: I'll also say that I am very frustrated with the cognitive dissonance that results from the interplay between the list of Layouts in the right column in Setup mode and the layout that actually shows on screen with the layout selector at the top of the window. Is there some setting somewhere that allows one the option to switch to the view of the layout that is selected in the Layout column on the right in Setup mode?

EDIT: Note that I have watched the Creating Leadsheets in Dorico and Part Preparation Improvements videos already posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOrvHT0rwqY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-44qbaiLlOE

Watching these videos did not result in my finding a workflow to create parts from original music.
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rafaelv
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Re: Tutorial video: Lead Sheet and Transpositions

Post by rafaelv »

Hi,

is your file an xml import? while trying to make an example i found that with xml imports Dorico will not override the clefs, the transposition override works but if you want to change the clef nothing happens.
The developers will surely take a look at the problem.

In a file made from scratch with Dorico (leadsheet template for example):

-Work your layout in the voice part layout not in the score layout, so you can propagate the part formatting later.
-Once you are ready with the layout, add as many instrumental parts layouts as you need. Change the names and assign the player to the new created layouts.
-Apply the clef and transposition overrides to each of the new layouts.
-Propagate the part formatting of the voice to all new layouts.
That's it.
lead sheet transpositions.gif
(1.45 MiB) Not downloaded yet
Regards
Rafael
Dorico Pro 3.5, Finale 25, Windows 10 pro, i7 4790k, 24GB

Craig F
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Re: Tutorial video: Lead Sheet and Transpositions

Post by Craig F »

@Rafael

Have you checked your XML imports for Explicit Clefs? If there are any then they override what is in the Transposition override.
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rafaelv
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Re: Tutorial video: Lead Sheet and Transpositions

Post by rafaelv »

Craig F wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:24 pm
@Rafael

Have you checked your XML imports for Explicit Clefs? If there are any then they override what is in the Transposition override.
HI Craig,
I can not find an option for Explicit Clefs in the import xml preferences, but that is certanly the problem. After importing the xml the (Explicit) Clef can be selected (write mode) and "deleted", apparently nothing happens (the clef remains the same, at least in the file i tested), but 1. the clef can not be selected anymore and 2. the clef overrides function works as expected.

Thanks a lot.
Dorico Pro 3.5, Finale 25, Windows 10 pro, i7 4790k, 24GB

windrag
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Re: Tutorial video: Lead Sheet and Transpositions

Post by windrag »

rafaelv wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:10 pm
Hi,

is your file an xml import? while trying to make an example i found that with xml imports Dorico will not override the clefs, the transposition override works but if you want to change the clef nothing happens.
The developers will surely take a look at the problem.
Thank you for this! My file is from a musicxml import.
rafaelv wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:10 pm
In a file made from scratch with Dorico (leadsheet template for example):

-Work your layout in the voice part layout not in the score layout, so you can propagate the part formatting later.
-Once you are ready with the layout, add as many instrumental parts layouts as you need. Change the names and assign the player to the new created layouts.
-Apply the clef and transposition overrides to each of the new layouts.
-Propagate the part formatting of the voice to all new layouts.
That's it.
Thank you! I will follow these steps.
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windrag
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Re: Tutorial video: Lead Sheet and Transpositions

Post by windrag »

rafaelv wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:02 am
Craig F wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:24 pm
@Rafael

Have you checked your XML imports for Explicit Clefs? If there are any then they override what is in the Transposition override.
HI Craig,
I can not find an option for Explicit Clefs in the import xml preferences, but that is certanly the problem. After importing the xml the (Explicit) Clef can be selected (write mode) and "deleted", apparently nothing happens (the clef remains the same, at least in the file i tested), but 1. the clef can not be selected anymore and 2. the clef overrides function works as expected.

Thanks a lot.
I will give this a look. Thank so much, both of you! I really appreciate the help.
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windrag
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Re: Tutorial video: Lead Sheet and Transpositions

Post by windrag »

@rafael and @craig Thank you! You completely solved my problem!

Was this problem with xml import/explicit clefs a known issue? Is the mention here enough for it to be passed on to the development team?
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Rob Tuley
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Re: Tutorial video: Lead Sheet and Transpositions

Post by Rob Tuley »

If the MusicXML file says a instrument named "violin" has an initial bass clef, what would you expect Dorico to do? Just ignore the bass clef and write the notes in the treble clef with lots of leger lines? (Or more realistically, what if the MusicXML file specifies a baroque French violin clef, which looks like a treble clef but is on the bottom line of the staff not the second line)

All the instrument definitions in Dorico have a default initial clef. If the initial clef in the MusicXML file is different from the default, you get a clef change in the score, and that doesn't go away unless you delete the clef.

The situation gets a bit messier for instrument names in the MusicXML file which don't match instruments Dorico knows about (e.g. sarrusophones - been there, imported one of them!) or vague instrument names like "voice" where the "correct" clef could be anything, but Dorico has a specific default (in that case, a treble clef).

The development team didn't invent all this without thinking about it :)

rafaelv
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Re: Tutorial video: Lead Sheet and Transpositions

Post by rafaelv »

In the 3.5 Version history is well documented that clefs overrides won't affect the clef if you have created an explicit clef change at the start of the flow (p. 31).
May i suggest a note (warning) saying that explicit clef changes are created when importing an xml file, and the instructions to delete it (them).

Thanks for considering.
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dwlarson
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Re: Tutorial video: Lead Sheet and Transpositions

Post by dwlarson »

For XML imports, I routinely delete all explicit clefs immediately. I also re-assign each instrument so that the associated "instrument properties" is properly recognized (dynamics above/below, notes out of range, etc.). I also select the entire score and remove any overrides which may have imported as well: Reset Position, Reset Appearance, Reset Beaming, and Remove Forced Stems to get everything back to Dorico defaults [my settings] before doing any more editing. Things just seem to go better if I do so. ;-)
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rafaelv
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Re: Tutorial video: Lead Sheet and Transpositions

Post by rafaelv »

dwlarson wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:51 pm
For XML imports, I routinely delete all explicit clefs immediately. I also re-assign each instrument so that the associated "instrument properties" is properly recognized (dynamics above/below, notes out of range, etc.). I also select the entire score and remove any overrides which may have imported as well: Reset Position, Reset Appearance, Reset Beaming, and Remove Forced Stems to get everything back to Dorico defaults [my settings] before doing any more editing. Things just seem to go better if I do so. ;-)
That sounds like a good habit.
Thanks for sharing
Dorico Pro 3.5, Finale 25, Windows 10 pro, i7 4790k, 24GB

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