Auto crossfade on overlap possible?

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Seraglio
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Auto crossfade on overlap possible?

Post by Seraglio »

It seems whenever I drag audio parts to overlap each other, I need to hit "X" to create a crossfade between the two.
Is there some setting in Cubase that will create a crossfade automatically, as soon as 2 audio snippets are overlapped on the same track? Can't seem to find it in the preferences.

thx
Steinberg user since 1984. Left, and tried many other DAWs for 3 years. Just got back on Cubase to try its limits in comparison. PC/Win8.1 custom build.

stingray
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Re: Auto crossfade on overlap possible?

Post by stingray »

Try activating auto fade 'crossfade' option in the Inspector (button with crossfade symbol). Search for "auto fade" in the user manual. No crossfade lines are shown on the display when auto crossfades is active and you cannot use crossfades of a longer length than 500ms.

Seraglio
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Re: Auto crossfade on overlap possible?

Post by Seraglio »

stingray wrote:Try activating auto fade 'crossfade' option in the Inspector (button with crossfade symbol). Search for "auto fade" in the user manual. No crossfade lines are shown on the display when auto crossfades is active and you cannot use crossfades of a longer length than 500ms.
Ah! On the track settings. Just where I didn't think of looking.

But ... no crossfade lines are shown? That's real odd. That'll screw up the overview of which parts are and aren't crossfaded. One can wonder what line of thought is behind that odd decision.
And it isn't editable either?? It's just like .. 'Accept whatever way cubase automatically do it, in its entirety, or else do it yourself'?
That's the same as saying 'keep doing it manually', to me. Then you get visable crossfade lines too, that are editable.

*Steinberg .. what are you doing .. *

thx though, Stingray
Steinberg user since 1984. Left, and tried many other DAWs for 3 years. Just got back on Cubase to try its limits in comparison. PC/Win8.1 custom build.

stingray
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Re: Auto crossfade on overlap possible?

Post by stingray »

Seraglio wrote:But ... no crossfade lines are shown? That's real odd. That'll screw up the overview of which parts are and aren't crossfaded. One can wonder what line of thought is behind that odd decision.
Yes, auto crossfading does not provide visual feedback of what is going on and is designed for short fades and crossfades only, usually to avoid audio clicks and so on.

For normal crossfading, remember that you can make a multiple event selection and then press X just once, which may or may not help you in your workflow.

The way crossfading is set up is not really an odd design. There is a kind of hierarchy in what happens when events overlap. You may not always want crossfades when events overlap. And on the same track you could easily have some overlapping events where you want a crossfade and others where you don't want a crossfade.

Seraglio
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Re: Auto crossfade on overlap possible?

Post by Seraglio »

stingray wrote:
Seraglio wrote:But ... no crossfade lines are shown? That's real odd. That'll screw up the overview of which parts are and aren't crossfaded. One can wonder what line of thought is behind that odd decision.
Yes, auto crossfading does not provide visual feedback of what is going on and is designed for short fades and crossfades only, usually to avoid audio clicks and so on.

For normal crossfading, remember that you can make a multiple event selection and then press X just once, which may or may not help you in your workflow.

The way crossfading is set up is not really an odd design. There is a kind of hierarchy in what happens when events overlap. You may not always want crossfades when events overlap. And on the same track you could easily have some overlapping events where you want a crossfade and others where you don't want a crossfade.
Ah, ok. Myself I couldn't imagine any situation where one would want an overlap, if not for crossfading.

Just to put perspective on my comment: I came in from using other DAWs, and the overall concept that is shared by many, is that overlapping creates an automatic crossfade (of whichever type is set in prefs), with very clear visual indication - even when zoomed out max. This is for both audio and MIDI parts.
The crossfade is usually also editable; you can redraw the line's envelope to suit the specific overlap. And the editing of the envelope then stays, no matter how long or short you adjust the overlap to be. Pulling the audio snippets apart, and re-overlapping them, will not revert to a 'default' crossfade, but a crossfade with the edited character you did.

So for me, having to 'enable' it on the track inspector, and then not have any visual indication, and not be able to edit it, and limited to 500ms, that felt odd to me. This is in the context of vocal editing for me atm.

Hitting X works kindof, but cumbersome. And the crossfade isn't editable more than sliding the overlap to shorter/wider. Plus, if you pull the audio snippets apart, and then re-overlap them, you won't get a crossfade again, and the disadvantage of that is you can't see what the audio envelope will become, until you hit X.
Because one snippet ends up as 'on top' of the other, the one on top obscures the one behind, meaning you can't see how far you need to drag the overlap. And you will only see the resulting volume envelope after hitting X. So the common modus becomes: overlap the snippets, let go of your mouse button, hit X, and then start adjusting the crossfade. That feels cumbersome from a production standpoint, to me :) But life ain't perfect.

I got it working as best as I think I can now, along with the fades editor dialog. Partly thanks to you.
Steinberg user since 1984. Left, and tried many other DAWs for 3 years. Just got back on Cubase to try its limits in comparison. PC/Win8.1 custom build.

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Re: Auto crossfade on overlap possible?

Post by J-S-Q »

RE: Editing the shape of your crossfade curves, double click towards the top of the crossfaded area and you will open the crossfade edit window.

RE: the two audio files being visually 'on top of each other', you can put them in different 'lanes' on the same track and this will give you a better visual idea of what's going on.

RE: Situations where you might want files overlapping but NOT crossfaded -I do this all the time. If you have a series of drum hits, you certainly don't want each one automatically crossfading into the next as you will ruin all your transients. Perhaps you're comping a vocal and you want to add an alternative take on a particular line. It's easy to A/B the two takes if you have them both overlapping on the same track and mute/unmute one of them, which flips between the two takes with one click.
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Seraglio
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Re: Auto crossfade on overlap possible?

Post by Seraglio »

J-S-Q wrote:RE: Editing the shape of your crossfade curves, double click towards the top of the crossfaded area and you will open the crossfade edit window.
Thx for the comments.
I don't mind discussing impressions and workflows :)

Yeah, that works. Though not for Cubase's automatic crossfades.
J-S-Q wrote:RE: the two audio files being visually 'on top of each other', you can put them in different 'lanes' on the same track and this will give you a better visual idea of what's going on.
Real cumbersome workaround to me. I wanna work fast, or need to work fast rather. Not have to think.
J-S-Q wrote:RE: Situations where you might want files overlapping but NOT crossfaded -I do this all the time. If you have a series of drum hits, you certainly don't want each one automatically crossfading into the next as you will ruin all your transients. Perhaps you're comping a vocal and you want to add an alternative take on a particular line. It's easy to A/B the two takes if you have them both overlapping on the same track and mute/unmute one of them, which flips between the two takes with one click.
Ah, there are some examples of overlapping w/o crossfading can work. I didn't think of that, but now that I do I'm sure I wouldn't be helped by it. :P This idea of having audio/midi snippets on top of each other, it needs to go, in my firm opinion.

If you're overlapping drumbeats or loop snippets, with no crossfade, then you need to spend time making sure that the previous one is on top over the following one. And that's not even obvious by looking at the track. As much as one accidental mouse click will change that order for a block too.
So if you shorten the blocks, so they don't overlap, then you don't even have to think about any one of them snatching the transient of the following one. It removes many 'potential trouble sources' in one move to me.

No blocks should be allowed on the same time on the same track, and when they do there should be an automatic crossfade, not some foreground/background thing. That's the way most DAWs do it. Otherwise, whatever 'freedom' it creates just causes alot of complex potential problems. It's mentally straining (for my poor head anyway).

Even when I've created a crossfade (using X), the 'foreground/background' principle still applies and messes things up. If the crossfade turns out to be too long, and I need to adjust the previous (overextending) block's ending to make the crossfade shorter, then sometimes I can't. Because the previous block is now in 'background mode' after I hit X. The following block's beginning is obscuring my access to it.
To remedy, I need to drag the following block's beginning - which is in foreground - out of the way. That way I can access the ending of the previous block. But when I'm supposed to drag the previous block's endpoint to be the right size for the crossfade, the following block's beginning is no longer there. I just dragged it out of the way. So now I can no longer see how far I need to shorten the previous block's ending to form the crossfade right. Or I need to 'guesstimate' it somehow.
Even if I was using a keyboard shortcut to switch the currently selected block to foreground, it's still one more step in the process to keep in mind and perform.

I'm comping lots of vocals tracks as I write. Messing around with these obstacles is what takes up most of the time. That's what feels odd, unusual to me. It feels a bit like using Microsoft's stuff. They usually got great ideas, but horrible implementations.

I'm sounding neggo sometimes, but in some kind of naive hope that Steinberg will hear me :P
Steinberg user since 1984. Left, and tried many other DAWs for 3 years. Just got back on Cubase to try its limits in comparison. PC/Win8.1 custom build.

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JACKnight
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Re: Auto crossfade on overlap possible?

Post by JACKnight »

I'd like to see the same results as in my video editor...overlap to clips and see the crossfade automatically.
cheers
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Re: Auto crossfade on overlap possible?

Post by notanotherusername »

+1

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