How to get audio via USB cable?

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rcgldr
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How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by rcgldr »

I just bought a Yamaha MOXF8 which includes Cubase AI 7. I downloaded a midi file to test the software and it plays on the synthesizer, and I can hear audio if I plug in headphones into the synthesizer, but I can't get any audio from the synthesizer back to the computer via the USB cable. I tried using the audio out to a line in on my sound card, but the sound ends up distorted. I'm running Windows 7 Pro 64 bit.

I've searched the manuals, checked out some web sites but no luck. There's mention of an Yamaha USB audio driver, but I'm only suppose to install the Yamaha Steinberg USB driver (version 1.8.4).

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SYNC
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by SYNC »

Maybe you should try installing that other driver anyway (?) Maybe you can only do either midi or audio via USB, not both at the same time? Dunno, I don't use USB for much aside from powering devices, or USB hard drives, too finicky. That's why I prefer standard midi connections for midi, you just plug it in and they always work! USB midi doesn't always get recognized or get's disconnected. For audio, analog line or digital connections are more reliable in my own experience. I tried using my midi guitar controller recently via USB after I had been using the regular midi out for a while...it worked once before, but I couldn't get it working again :roll:

As for distortion on the audio line outs into your sound card, you must have levels set too hot somewhere, check them at all stages...from out of your keyboard, in your sound card control panel and in Cubase etc.

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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by rcgldr »

My computer doesn't have a midi device, neither does the sound card. I can get a USB to midi adapter, but that would still be USB on the computer end, which seems to be the problem. The "audio" driver can't be installed, it stops with an error "no ... device found", although the MOXF8 device shows up in device list when it's connected and powered on, and also shows up as a sound device with it's own "line". Generally if software generates audio data, it will go through the sound card, so for some reason the Yamaha Steinberg USB driver apparently isn't generating audio data and I don't see a volume slider on any audio control panel.

Using headphones plugged into the synthesizer while playing a midi file, I'm also sometimes hear clicks and pops, perhaps after 5 to 10 minutes of usage. This doesn't seem to be a CPU usage issue, as none of the 8 "CPUS" (4 hyper threading cores) are running over 20%.

I sent a problem report to Yamaha support this weekend, but have to wait until Monday to get a response. If that doesn't resolve it in a few days, I'll just return the synthesizer to the store for a refund, as I only have 14 days to do a return.

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SYNC
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by SYNC »

Well, had a quick look at that keyboard. Interesting, apparently it acts as a sound card as well, so that you can plug in other instruments which send that audio to your computer (?) It does look like a very nice keyboard. I have to think you're doing something wrong, rather than something is wrong with it.

It has a regular midi connection, but your sound card doesn't have a midi in. What sound card DO you have? I believe every 'audio device' has it's own control panel where you can adjust it's levels...even the cheapo one's built into motherboards (don't use that). Once you select a sound card in Cubase as your ASIO device, or a device that acts as a sound card (your keyboard in this case I think) you should then be open it's control panel from that dialog box, adjust levels, pan, etc, etc.
Since you said you get distortion from your keyboards audio outs, you're either using the wrong outs, or the sound card's levels are too high...the card you're plugging it into, and you must likely have that one selected as Cubase's ASIO device.

At any rate, apparently it's USB carries audio & midi and I'm assuming simultaneously by my quick read. In Cubase, what are you selecting as your ASIO device? The other sound card, or the Yamaha keyboard/interface? What do you see in your VST inputs/outputs? (or rather VST connections) Your sound card or your Yamaha keyboard/interface? I believe with USB there is a 'power on' order, try turning one on before the other & visa-versa...it's worked for me before.

Do you see any audio activity coming in Cubase's activity meter? Do you have any audio tracks in this project or template? If so, have you selected that track by clicking on it with your mouse? Are you monitoring correctly on that channel? Try your 'monitor' button, you may have a speaker icon. Also, have you assigned an I/O to that audio channel?

If that keyboard does indeed act as an audio interface as it looks like, you probably can't use both that AND your audio card simultaneously, as only one ASIO driver typically can be used at any one time. So you'll have to select one or the other, depending on which you're using at any given time. If you're trying to use your keyboard, then you should have that selected as your ASIO device within Cubase in order for it to pass any audio through it's USB.

Also, many devices that use certain I/O like serial & probably USB and others etc, you have to make the proper selection at the back of that device (in this case your keyboard) ...does it have a 'To Host', 'Midi', 'USB' 'Audio+Midi' etc or anything remotely similar to these? Read your manual, and make sure you have the proper selection made on your keyboard...I'm 'guessing' maybe 'To Host' if you're trying to get audio out of it's USB...???? I could be wrong, and that could be just for midi only for all I know. I know on my Yamaha DTXpress drum module, in order to use the serial port out for midi directly into my PC, I have to select 'To Host' and also install a special driver. Since then, I have been using standard midi into my sound cards midi in. Anyway, be sure you have the right selection...there's probably a small slide switch (similar looking to the forward/reverse switch on a standard celing fan).

Anyway, I hope this at least sparked some idea's for you, and made you realize you overlooked something.
Last edited by SYNC on Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rcgldr
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

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SYNC wrote:In Cubase, what are you selecting as your ASIO device?
"Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO", so it's the proper device. If I start Cubase with the MOXF8 turned off, then turn the MOXF8 on after starting Cubase, I'll get a dialog box asking me which ASIO device I want to use, and I select "Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO" / "MOXF6 / MOXF8".
SYNC wrote:What do you see in your VST inputs/outputs?
All of them are MOXF8.
SYNC wrote:Do you see any audio activity coming in Cubase's activity meter?
Yes, when playing midi files it shows activity. If I connect headphones to the MOXF8, I hear the music, and the volume control slider on Cubase functions. The only issue here is after 5 to 10 minutes of play I start getting crackles, clicks, pops, ... from the sound heard on the head phones.
SYNC wrote:Also, many devices that use certain I/O like serial & probably USB and others etc, you have to make the proper selection at the back of that device ...
I'm using an A (MOXF8) to B (computer) USB cable. The only A USB port on the MOXF8 is "To Host", so there's no switch to change. I checked the MOXF8 parameters, and they are set up to output audio on the USB cable according to the owner's manual and the reference manual.

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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by SYNC »

SYNC wrote:Do you see any audio activity coming in Cubase's activity meter?
Yes, when playing midi files it shows activity.
Just to be clear, I'm sure you know the difference between audio activity & midi activity in Cubase. Midi activity will be in the Transport bar meter. You should see audio in your mixer view.

To be able to hear audio in Cubase... in the Arrange Windows track lanes ....do you have corresponding audio channels? Are they set correctly? You should see at the left side of the Arrange Window when a track/lane is highlighted, a selection of the intending I/O from an audio device. Are they enabled & are you monitoring them correctly?
If I connect headphones to the MOXF8, I hear the music, and the volume control slider on Cubase functions. The only issue here is after 5 to 10 minutes of play I start getting crackles, clicks, pops, ... from the sound heard on the head phones.
Do you get these crackles & pops only when the USB is used, or do you get it when nothings plugged into your keyboard except your headphones? In other words, does it only happen when interfaced with Cubase? If it happens with your keyboard only with headphones and nothing else, I'd worry about the keyboard.
Buffers/latency settings? Samples rates matching up between your equipment & Cubase?

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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by rcgldr »

SYNC wrote:Do you see any audio activity coming in Cubase's activity meter?
Yes, when playing midi files it shows activity.
SYNC wrote:You should see audio in your mixer view.
It was audio, with headphones plugged into the MOXF8, I could adjust the volume slider in Cubase and hear the volume changing.
If I connect headphones to the MOXF8, I hear the music, and the volume control slider on Cubase functions. The only issue here is after 5 to 10 minutes of play I start getting crackles, clicks, pops, ... from the sound heard on the head phones.
SYNC wrote:Do you get these crackles & pops only when the USB is used
It only happened twice while playing midi files with Cubase and listening to headphones connected to the MOXF8, but I wasn't able to test much since the goal was to have the MOXF8 send audio data via USB back to the computer and have the computer play the audio.

I got email from Yamaha support, and confirmed all my settings are correct, but the audio via USB isn't working, and there's an impedance problem (clipping / distorted sound) trying to connect the MOXF8 audio out or headphone out to the line input of the sound card. As for the audio via USB, I think I read that the MOXF8 sends 24 bit (or 23 bit if 1 of the bits is used for another function) samples, and perhaps my sound card, a Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty, can't handle the 24 bit format. I can't upgrade / replace the sound card because I multi-boot between Win XP and Win 7, and Creative no longer makes Win XP drivers for their current sound cards. (I use XP more than I use Win 7).

After spending probably 8 or more hours on trying to resolve this issue, I gave up and returned the MOXF8 back to the store for a refund. I might try again in a few years when I get a new computer.

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SYNC
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by SYNC »

Ah well, you gave it a good try. Frustrating I'm sure.

Actually you 'can' upgrade your sound card to a much better one for use with Win XP...one that does 24 bit, and for a really good price if you buy used and know what you're looking for. Originally I bought an Aardvark Q10 'in the day' for nearly $800, they have just about every feature & connectivity options one needs...Aardvark is out of business now, and I bought extra Q10's & Aark 24 cards for about $100 or less each on ebay, I have 5 in total. Hey, another mans trash (for those that have gone 64 bit) is another mans treasure. That's one of the best deals going on used audio cards (also stopped drivers at Win XP), but you can find deals on other brands in the used market too.

I too still use, and am staying with Win XP for all my music machines, though I use Win Vista & Win 7 on my laptops for general use). I'm running multiple XP machines as my resource limitation solution in lieu of 64 bit, and I don't have any plans to upgrade ... not my OS, not my machines, and definitely not my audio cards. I can run everything I'll ever need to do with my set up.

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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by rcgldr »

The sound card on my system is a SB X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series

http://us.store.creative.com/Creative-S ... BDPLJA.htm

I have it in audio creation mode, and it does support 24 bit, as I have the record option set to record .wav files at 44.1khz, 24 bits. I can also choose 48khz or 96khz rates. The sound card's software app called Creative Console Launcher includes an ASIO tab, so the card does support at least some ASIO features.

The issue was that Cubase AI 7 did not include the sound card it it's list of ASIO devices (it only showed the MOXF8), so I was unable to select the sound card as an audio output device. I could not determine how to get a list of sound cards that should work in ASIO mode with Cubase AI 7 from the Steinberg web site.

Regarding Win XP versus Win 7, the Yamaha Steinberg USB driver documentation indicates that it's Win 7 only.

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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by SYNC »

I don't know about Cubase AI 7, but it should be that ALL sound cards/audio interfaces with ASIO capability ought to be recognized by ANY version of Cubase. If Cubase could see one ASIO device, it should see any other. Or is that only for ASIO 2(?) Even my fairly old Aardvark cards are ASIO 2 compatible.
Though I tested a USB audio interface once and it wasn't recognized 'every time'....neither was a USB midi interface. Once it actually get's connected, I had no trouble with the DAW making use of it. You'd think USB with all it's capability wouldn't be so finicky & unreliable.

About staying with Win XP... that's the thing, you must be sure anything you get ... DAW software's, VSTi's, all drivers & hardware, is compatible with Win XP. Was just looking at a new Digital Mixer on line and was very surprised it works with Win XP as well as Win 7. If your DAW partition uses Win XP, you should research similar keyboard controllers that 'are' actually XP compatible.

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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by rcgldr »

I was using Window 7 Pro 64 bit when I was trying to get Cubase AI 7 to work. I could click on devices and get to a menu showing a tab for audio input, and the two device (left and right channel) select boxes were set to the MOXF8. Then I clicked on the tab for audio output, and in the two device selection boxes (left and right channel), the only choices were "not connected" or MOXF8.

The sound card did show up as an option for some of the MIDI inputs or outputs, but the audio selections were restricted to the MOXF8 or "not connected".

I couldn't find any documentation or manuals for Cubase AI 7 that indicate what devices are supported for audio input or output.

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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by rcgldr »

I got a response from Yamaha support and the issue is that Cubase can only work with one ASIO device, but that doesn't explain why Cubase can't take the audio received from the MOXF8 and output on the host computer using Windows direct sound (directx). What's the point of the MOXF8 being able to send audio data back to the host, if the host software can't output that sound?

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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by rcgldr »

Follow up on this problem. Although I returned the MOXF8, I'm considering purchasing one again if I can get around this audio issue.

From the Yamaha MOXF8 features web page: "A single USB cable is all you need to transmit both audio and MIDI data between the MOXF and your computer. The MOXF features a built-in 4-in 2-out USB audio interface so you can record its internal sounds, and two dedicated audio inputs that can be used to capture guitars and vocals all recorded directly to your computer."

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-pr ... moxf/moxf8

The key part of that statement, is "recorded directly to your computer". If the sound can be recorded on my computer, then I should also be able to hear it on my computer, so how do I configure the software (Cubase AI, Steinberg USB audio driver, ...) to set this up?

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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by Bad Mister »

The MOXF has its own built-in MIDI and audio interface, what this means is when connected by USB you can communicate back and forth to the computer via this single connection. As in all computer music based systems, your audio interface is responsible for getting audio *into* and *back out of* the computer. Audio going to the computer is sent in via the MOXF... this includes any of its 16 synthesizer PARTs and/or anything connected to its AD (analog-to-digital) Input.

What is perhaps not as apparent but will become clear, audio travels to your monitor speakers connected to the outputs of the MOXF! Remember the MOXF is the audio interface. So no sound comes out of the computer's soundcard and connected sound system, all audio is routed via the MOXF at 24-bit resolution. The MOXF literally takes the place of the computer's default soundcard and system. The Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver will handle all audio and MIDI for the MOXF.

The 4-in to the computer come from the MOXF as Outputs. By default, the outputs are setup as two stereo pairs: USB 1/2 and USB 3/4

The AD INPUT defaults to USB 1/2
The internal synth PARTs default to USB 3/4... But you can selectively isolate any internal synth Part by rerouting it to USB 1/2 as necessary.

Any audio source connected to the AD INPUTS can be routed through MOXF's Insertion Effects and recorded to Cubase. It is possible to play and sing and record each discreetly in one pass.

Step-by-step setup guide concerning the MOXF and Cubase can be found in the RESOURCE area on the Yamaha Synth.com website.

Now all that said, once you have used the MOXF as audio/MIDI interface to record your session, Cubase allows you to switch VST SOUND SYSTEM drivers and playback your music on your computer's audio system. Typically, built in computer audio systems are good for playback, but fall short when attempting to do pro recording duties where overdubbing demands extremely low latency drivers. So you will be able to playback your project using whatever audio driver or system you desire.

Hope that is helpful.

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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by rcgldr »

The key phrase I was referring to was "recorded directly to your computer" .

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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by smh2000 »

I know this is an old thread, but I found it when searching for an answer to the exact same problem, so I am going to post a reply anyway for future searchers, since I figured out how to make this work.

Only one ASIO device can be used at a time. I had two Yamaha Steinberg devices (my mixer and my keyboard). They don't play nice together. So in order to record voice (or guitar or a second keyboard) at the same time as my MOXF8 (so that i could get midi and audio simultaneously), I had to:

1) Plug my mic in through my keyboard A/D Input and turn on the A/D input. (Came out quite clear actually, although not studio quality by a long shot, I am sure. Just a Shure 58beta in a regular room.)
2) Plug my headphones into my keyboard (which I don't usually do). Vocal or guitar will obviously only play in the left or right of the headphones. So it is a little strange when trying to record unless you use a mono splitter to plugin to both L and R channels of the A/D input.)
3) In the MOXF8, go to Utility >
MIDI (F6) > Other (SF4) > MIDI in/out = USB
> Switch (SF2) > Local Ctrl = *on*
USB I/O (F5) > mode = 2StereoRec (which gives the A/D in channels 1-2 and keyboard channels 3-4)
> A/D In & Part = on
> Part = on
VCE A/D (F3) > Mono/Stereo = Lmono (if plugging in instrument to L A/D; etc.)
GENERAL (F1) > Other (SF6) > Mic/Line = Mic for guitar or microphone, Line for CD player, (etc. - same as usual)
In Reaper/DAW:
4) Set audio devices to ASIO Yamaha Steinberg > Input = MOXF8 (channels 1-4), output = MOXF8 (channels 1-2)
If MOXF8 doesn't show as available choice, in my ASIO Configuration choose the MOXF8
(you may have to do this if you have more than one Steinberg device)
5) In Midi Devices, enable your MOXF8 in both input and output.
6) Create three input tracks for recording (or 4 if you are using L&R A/D inputs through the MOXF8):
track 1) A/D input 1 (Left) > Input mono and choose first MOXF8 input listed
track 2) A/D input 2 (right) > input mono and choose second MOXF8 input listed
(or if another stereo input, you would choose stereo and choose the first listed MOXF8 from the list
track 3) PARTS (keys) > stereo input > choose the 3rd MOXF8 listed
track 4) MIDI > MOXF8 > All Channels
*Or however you want to break down all of the midi inputs over additional tracks

Now when you prep each track for recording and you play, you should be able to see the track 3 and 4+ light up simultaneously (audio on 3 and midi on 4+) and track 1 (and maybe 2) should light up when you use the mic or guitar or other stereo input.

Sorry this explanation is so complicated, but the setup is complicated. Note: If you skip any step above, it may not work, especially the LocalCntrl = off will make the whole thing fail.

I hope this helps. Good luck!

rcgldr
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by rcgldr »

One more time, the product description states "recorded directly to your computer". So how am I supposed to record the audio transmitted from the MOXF8 to the computer via the USB cable?

I did buy a MOXF8 when it was on sale about a year ago, and I can connect the MOXF8 audio output to the computer sound card line in, but part of the reason for choosing the MOXF8 was it's claimed ability to send and receive audio data over the USB cable. What I don't know is if the problem is a limitation or flaw with Cubase or if the MOXF8 doesn't send back audio data as claimed in the product description.

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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by Dazz »

Hi did you manage to get it right because i'm.also struggling to get my moxf sound through my computer for recording.

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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Post by Basil79 »

Can anyone pleas guide that any one manage their issue so that i will also try to fix mine

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