PC BUILD RYZEN 3950X VS TR 2950X

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rockthetop
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PC BUILD RYZEN 3950X VS TR 2950X

Post by rockthetop »

Hi Friends,
Please guide with your Valuable comments /fdbks/and suggestions regarding my New PC Build on Budget...

1) Will be Working on A Single Computer with Huge Orchestral Library like Spitfire,VSl,EW,Orchestral Tools etc....
2) Will be doing 4k Video Edit
3) 6 HDD SATA (Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm)(I already have these HD which Store my Samples/ Loops/Library/Video projects)
4) Cubase 10.5 Pro as My DAW and Premiere Pro For Video Edit
5) UR44C Audio Interface


So Please help which CPU should i go for, as my concern currently is having A GPU like(1660Ti 6gb),with 6 Internal HDD SATA, UR44C USB audio Interface without bottlenecking the performance of each Device ..i mean to say 20PCIe lanes of 3950x is it sufficient for the above device to run...

Also is there any Latency found in TR2950x which will affect the music production..

Please Guide with your valuable Suggestions?
.

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MattiasNYC
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Re: PC BUILD RYZEN 3950X VS TR 2950X

Post by MattiasNYC »

I think you'll be comparing x399 versus AM4 / x570, most likely:

https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/ ... tform2.jpg

https://i.gadgets360cdn.com/large/amd_x ... 868546.jpg

From what I can tell the Threadripper will have all SATA HDDs connect via the chipset to the CPU. That means the chipset is the bottleneck with 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes in total for all drives. You'd have to calculate what bandwidth that would be. I'm too tired.

Interestingly it seems the x570 can have one or two SATA connections to the CPU, but it seems to depend on the motherboard manufacturer if they implement that. If they don't the situation is the same as with Threadripper where all drives go through the x570 chipset. The difference is that the bandwidth is much higher with the x570 since it's four lanes but PCIe 4.0, not 3.0.

In both cases it seems as if USB is available straight from the CPU.

Both have 16 lanes for your GPU straight to the CPU.

So anyway, I'm tired, but I'd be willing to bet that the 3950x is the better buy. My hunch is that the CPU will perform better as well as the platform as a whole. The only case where I can see the Threadripper be better is if you need the bandwidth of three m.2 NVME drives straight into the CPU.

Check Scanproaudio for DAWbench audio benchmarks, and Pugetsystems for video.
Nuendo 10.2.2 build 396 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.6GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Radeon VII / ASUS x370-A mobo ::::: RX Post Production Suite 4 / DaVinci Resolve

rockthetop
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Re: PC BUILD RYZEN 3950X VS TR 2950X

Post by rockthetop »

MattiasNYC wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:45 am
I think you'll be comparing x399 versus AM4 / x570, most likely:

https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/ ... tform2.jpg

https://i.gadgets360cdn.com/large/amd_x ... 868546.jpg

From what I can tell the Threadripper will have all SATA HDDs connect via the chipset to the CPU. That means the chipset is the bottleneck with 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes in total for all drives. You'd have to calculate what bandwidth that would be. I'm too tired.

Interestingly it seems the x570 can have one or two SATA connections to the CPU, but it seems to depend on the motherboard manufacturer if they implement that. If they don't the situation is the same as with Threadripper where all drives go through the x570 chipset. The difference is that the bandwidth is much higher with the x570 since it's four lanes but PCIe 4.0, not 3.0.

In both cases it seems as if USB is available straight from the CPU.

Both have 16 lanes for your GPU straight to the CPU.

So anyway, I'm tired, but I'd be willing to bet that the 3950x is the better buy. My hunch is that the CPU will perform better as well as the platform as a whole. The only case where I can see the Threadripper be better is if you need the bandwidth of three m.2 NVME drives straight into the CPU.

Check Scanproaudio for DAWbench audio benchmarks, and Pugetsystems for video.
Thank You for ur comment.so according to you 3950x will be the best bang for budget.I am willing 3950x with Gigabyte Aorus Master MoBo..any opinion on this?

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Re: PC BUILD RYZEN 3950X VS TR 2950X

Post by MattiasNYC »

I'm like 90% sure you're better off with the Ryzen.

Like I said, it doesn't seem you'll gain anything from using Threadripper as far as storage goes unless you switch to m.2 nvme drives which is likely going to be very pricey.

And then as far as the CPU itself the 3950X is the latest generation and the Threadripper you're looking at is a generation behind. The Ryzen should use less power, run cooler, run faster, has more lvl 3 cache, and has PCIe 4.0 instead of previous generation.

If I'm not mistaken the actual architecture of the CPU changed between those two generations. You could probably argue that Threadripper has 4 memory channels instead of Ryzen's 2 and that it would be better when loading samples. However, that generation (iirc) split the cores up in to [4+4] + [4+4} and the memory controllers were actually ON those "[4+4]" 'chunks'. But that means you have two channels going into #1 and the other two channels going into #2. So if you need data off of the memory that hangs off of #2 for the cores in #1 you have to request it from that second 'chunk', fetch it from DDR, send it through that 'chunk' and across to the correct 'chunk'.

The new generation AMD chips have taken i/o operations including memory management and put that in a separate die and all core-complexes basically connect to that die. So no set of cores is going to have to wait longer than the rest.

Like I said, you should read the reviews on this, but I think that apart from nvme storage going straight to the CPU or maybe some added PCIe card in a worst-case scenario you should be better off with the latest generation CPUs.... like 90% sure.
Nuendo 10.2.2 build 396 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.6GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Radeon VII / ASUS x370-A mobo ::::: RX Post Production Suite 4 / DaVinci Resolve

rockthetop
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Re: PC BUILD RYZEN 3950X VS TR 2950X

Post by rockthetop »

MattiasNYC wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:16 pm
I'm like 90% sure you're better off with the Ryzen.

Like I said, it doesn't seem you'll gain anything from using Threadripper as far as storage goes unless you switch to m.2 nvme drives which is likely going to be very pricey.

And then as far as the CPU itself the 3950X is the latest generation and the Threadripper you're looking at is a generation behind. The Ryzen should use less power, run cooler, run faster, has more lvl 3 cache, and has PCIe 4.0 instead of previous generation.

If I'm not mistaken the actual architecture of the CPU changed between those two generations. You could probably argue that Threadripper has 4 memory channels instead of Ryzen's 2 and that it would be better when loading samples. However, that generation (iirc) split the cores up in to [4+4] + [4+4} and the memory controllers were actually ON those "[4+4]" 'chunks'. But that means you have two channels going into #1 and the other two channels going into #2. So if you need data off of the memory that hangs off of #2 for the cores in #1 you have to request it from that second 'chunk', fetch it from DDR, send it through that 'chunk' and across to the correct 'chunk'.

The new generation AMD chips have taken i/o operations including memory management and put that in a separate die and all core-complexes basically connect to that die. So no set of cores is going to have to wait longer than the rest.

Like I said, you should read the reviews on this, but I think that apart from nvme storage going straight to the CPU or maybe some added PCIe card in a worst-case scenario you should be better off with the latest generation CPUs.... like 90% sure.
ok...but could you plz help me to guide whats the role or use of PCIe lanes in both CPUs as 2950x has much more than 3950X?Is this PCIe lanes number obstruct or will bottleneck my PC performance...If you could help on This...

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MattiasNYC
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Re: PC BUILD RYZEN 3950X VS TR 2950X

Post by MattiasNYC »

For the 3950x:

The PCIe lanes connect different parts of the system. Often when people say "it" has a certain amount of lanes they get a bit sloppy with what they mean. This video (at 3:00) explains how the lanes are allocated.

https://youtu.be/VvyJikeOXYo?t=180

So as you can see in the video on the left there are 16x lanes that are typically used for the GPU. So you would put your 1660 video card into that slot and get maximum bandwidth for that card with no restrictions. There's then two x4 NVME connections straight to the CPU (one more than I remembered). Then finally there are another 4 lanes and those go from the CPU to the x570 chipset itself.

The important point here is that the x570 chipset will actually connect to a bunch of other devices including other PCIe slots which of course then uses more PCIe lanes. That's what you see in blue to the right of the image. The devices in those PCIe slots to the right go through the x4 lanes connecting the x570 chipset to the CPU. So that is a potential bottleneck for those lanes.

But you can also see in those blue boxes to the right that the motherboard manufacturer gets to choose how to use the resources and some of that can be SATA connections. There's also the grey box where it says "4x SATA" which is another point where you have SATA connections.

So actually all of those SATA connections AND PCI slots go through the same x4. So that's the bottleneck as far as lanes go.

On the Threadripper you still have 4 lanes as a bottleneck the same way, but they're slower spec and so the bottleneck is actually worse. You would still connect your 1660 straight to the CPU so that's fine, but it's the resulting 6 HDDs that have to share that remaining bandwidth.

--------------

You should ask around and see what people say about "Huge Orchestral Libraries" and what drives they recommend that you use!

(My guess is that IF you end up using spinning HDDs then you have enough bandwidth, the drives themselves will be the bottleneck. And IF you choose SSDs instead then you'll still most likely be fine unless you choose m.2 NVME drives (more expensive) and only then could you possibly maybe gain from using THreadripper, but just maybe.)

--------------

So again I really don't see how this older version of Threadripper will give you anything you really benefit from unless I'm missing something. If you're looking for an upgrade then maybe the latest generation is better (I don't know) or you'll be far better off spending money on NVME storage. And incidentally you can get a PCIe card that accepts NVME m.2 SSD drives on it. Obviously more expensive though.
Nuendo 10.2.2 build 396 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.6GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Radeon VII / ASUS x370-A mobo ::::: RX Post Production Suite 4 / DaVinci Resolve

rockthetop
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Re: PC BUILD RYZEN 3950X VS TR 2950X

Post by rockthetop »

MattiasNYC wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:58 am
For the 3950x:

The PCIe lanes connect different parts of the system. Often when people say "it" has a certain amount of lanes they get a bit sloppy with what they mean. This video (at 3:00) explains how the lanes are allocated.

https://youtu.be/VvyJikeOXYo?t=180

So as you can see in the video on the left there are 16x lanes that are typically used for the GPU. So you would put your 1660 video card into that slot and get maximum bandwidth for that card with no restrictions. There's then two x4 NVME connections straight to the CPU (one more than I remembered). Then finally there are another 4 lanes and those go from the CPU to the x570 chipset itself.

The important point here is that the x570 chipset will actually connect to a bunch of other devices including other PCIe slots which of course then uses more PCIe lanes. That's what you see in blue to the right of the image. The devices in those PCIe slots to the right go through the x4 lanes connecting the x570 chipset to the CPU. So that is a potential bottleneck for those lanes.

But you can also see in those blue boxes to the right that the motherboard manufacturer gets to choose how to use the resources and some of that can be SATA connections. There's also the grey box where it says "4x SATA" which is another point where you have SATA connections.

So actually all of those SATA connections AND PCI slots go through the same x4. So that's the bottleneck as far as lanes go.

On the Threadripper you still have 4 lanes as a bottleneck the same way, but they're slower spec and so the bottleneck is actually worse. You would still connect your 1660 straight to the CPU so that's fine, but it's the resulting 6 HDDs that have to share that remaining bandwidth.

--------------

You should ask around and see what people say about "Huge Orchestral Libraries" and what drives they recommend that you use!

(My guess is that IF you end up using spinning HDDs then you have enough bandwidth, the drives themselves will be the bottleneck. And IF you choose SSDs instead then you'll still most likely be fine unless you choose m.2 NVME drives (more expensive) and only then could you possibly maybe gain from using THreadripper, but just maybe.)

--------------

So again I really don't see how this older version of Threadripper will give you anything you really benefit from unless I'm missing something. If you're looking for an upgrade then maybe the latest generation is better (I don't know) or you'll be far better off spending money on NVME storage. And incidentally you can get a PCIe card that accepts NVME m.2 SSD drives on it. Obviously more expensive though.
A HUGH THANK YOU for explaining in details..You Have cleared the misconception which i Had..Now i Am sure that I will go for 3950X..
My Suggested Build is As follows please look in to it and guide me or correct me if i am wrong
1)CPU 3950x
2)Gigabyte X570 Aorus MAster( you can guide me on this)(i dont require thunderbolt as i am having USBc Audio Interface)
3)RAM LPX 3200Mhz 16GbX4
4)NZXT Kraken Cooler 280mm( you can suggest here)
5)Corsair 650 watt Gold PSU(( you can suggest here)
6)GTX 1660 Ti 6Gb(Mainly for 4k Video edit)(is this GPU ok to handle 4k Video or what you suggest)(will be using Premiere Pro And Resolve)
7) 6 HDD (Barracuda 4tb x 6)

If I am Missing out something Please Guide..Your Suggestion and Guidance is valuable..

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MattiasNYC
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Re: PC BUILD RYZEN 3950X VS TR 2950X

Post by MattiasNYC »

If you don't have an account already at Gearslutz.com then create one.

Then post that configuration of components (and what you are going to do with it) in a new post in this very long thread:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c ... d-373.html

It's a really long thread with thousands and thousands of posts, but just add yours to the end and I'm pretty sure someone will let you know if anything is 'off'. Just remember to come back here and share your experience once you've built your new computer.
Nuendo 10.2.2 build 396 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.6GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Radeon VII / ASUS x370-A mobo ::::: RX Post Production Suite 4 / DaVinci Resolve

rockthetop
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Re: PC BUILD RYZEN 3950X VS TR 2950X

Post by rockthetop »

thank you

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