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Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:41 am
by DrWashington
Has anybody heard any news about the next update? For such a major bug as non-functional timestretch at 48 and 96kHz, I would have hoped there would be a sense of urgency here. I was really looking forward to using it, but IT DOESN'T WORK AT ALL. :cry:

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:08 am
by Guest
Maybe they are taking their time, and there are problems using particular sample rates. Also, while it can be considered a serious issue eg projects already recorded at 48/96 I personally feel it is more than likely the C5 update will come first.

Why do I say this?

Well, unless you do the C6 update (judging by the buglist "ready for testing" entries):

http://steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 655#p22407

of which this topic is, but which;

http://steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 655#p22398

this topic is not, and we have no word on who's fault ie propz/steiny or both I'd say it will be some weeks yet before anything is even said.

Besides that it probably makes more sense to do the C5 update first anyway, as there are other issues such as here:

http://steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 655#p27020

That already effect the previous version, since now there is now more than 1 camp to deal with.

Unless of course Steinberg completely clear the tables and provide downloadable upgrades at a seriously cheap price, who knows what is on their minds.

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:37 am
by DrWashington
Whatever the case may be, and whatever their reasons may be, I think this bug is indeed a pretty serious oversight that deserves some immediate rectification. If they want to do a 6.0.1 update to address just this and whatever else is presently corrected (it was mentioned by one of the mods that the timestretch issue is indeed corrected at Steinberg HQ, if I'm not mistaken), followed by a 6.0.2 to address other issues, that's fine by me.

Whatever the case may be, I feel I've been pretty patient, and for them just to remain mum on this is a bit disheartening as a paying customer and oftentimes Cubase fan.

This software would be far more enthusiastically and often recommended to other musicians I know and happen to meet if Steinberg took the rock tack and released a steady stream of updates to keep more people working how they want to. Teasing us with a brilliantly powerful stretch algorithm and then denying us usage of it for perhaps months unless we happen to track at 44.1kHz all the time is somewhat maddening.

C'mon, Steinberg, we know you can do better than this. Please, give us what we want! It's not too much to ask, and you claim to have it fixed. I would really like to get to work with Elastique!

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:39 am
by DrWashington
Oh, wow, so C.O.C.K.O.S. is a bad word now? Take the "rock" tack?

This is why I hate word filters. It's one thing to restrict the vernacular: quite another to restrict proper names of competing companies.

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:15 am
by Guest
If Steiny were to start releasing updates that only addressed this or that concern, then others' would start complaining.

The priority updates are given likely has no link whatever to what users "want" as you say, but rather the difficultly of what something might take to address.

Even still it was said in the previous forum that often things need re-designing, so therefore no bug fix is available until it is done meaning while updates flow in the meantime again they maybe not all be what a user "wants".

I think you need to be patient and let the good folk at steinberg do their jobs rather than commence what is in effect a moan thread.

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:09 am
by DrWashington
No, Brains, this is not a "moan" thread, as you put it. If I were griping, it'd be something small and nitpicky. This is, in fact, a major feature that is inaccessible to all except those who track only at 44.1kHz.

This needs to be addressed. This is not a niggle.

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:27 am
by Guest
This needs to be addressed. This is not a niggle.
What is being asked for is preferential treatment, which by all accounts of past interaction between users and Steinberg, will not happen so therefore what this thread amounts to is an ambit claim.

As per your other "necroed" thread, unless an internet downloading service is built into the elicense system, ad-hoc updates are not in the interests of anyone least of all the users of steinberg software.

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:50 am
by Helge Vogt
We are currently working on an update which will fix reported issues. It will probably be released by end of march.

all the best
Helge

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:17 pm
by sturgeon
DrWashington wrote:No, Brains, this is not a "moan" thread, as you put it. If I were griping, it'd be something small and nitpicky. This is, in fact, a major feature that is inaccessible to all except those who track only at 44.1kHz.

This needs to be addressed. This is not a niggle.
True !

We need a Hotfix.

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:37 pm
by Konundrum
Helge Vogt wrote:We are currently working on an update which will fix reported issues. It will probably be released by end of march.

all the best
Helge
end of march???

uugggghhhh...hoping it was gonna be sooner than that..is the sidechain metering gonna be fixed??

sorry to op for slightly hijacking your thread..

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:23 pm
by nilsemil
for gods sake guys. dont jump on the first version if you need stuff to get done. everybody knows this.

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:04 pm
by samicide
nilsemil wrote:for gods sake guys. dont jump on the first version if you need stuff to get done. everybody knows this.
+1

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:07 pm
by NorthWood MediaWorks
Helge Vogt wrote:We are currently working on an update which will fix reported issues. It will probably be released by end of march.

all the best
Helge
Thanks Helge, good to know.

Cheers

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:44 pm
by -steve-
nilsemil wrote:for gods sake guys. dont jump on the first version if you need stuff to get done. everybody knows this.
really.

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:09 pm
by Conman
nilsemil wrote:for gods sake guys. dont jump on the first version if you need stuff to get done. everybody knows this.

Good call anyone who knows jack about computing / programming waiting times knows it don't get fixed yesterday.
It ought to be writ in stone above every DAW forum; "It's a new version so there's gonna be problems and it'll take us time to fix them so use what you've got that works for you."
It would stop the newbies going ape every time they spot a dull spot on the shiny new thing.

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:18 am
by DrWashington
OK, look, no one is asking for preferential treatment here: we're simply asking that broken MAJOR features get an update quickly.

Lots of people were very excited to use Elastique, and rightly so: it's remarkable. The fact that it doesn't work for a wide swath of users just because they don't happen to work at 44.1kHz exclusively strikes me as a serious oversight.

This whole paradigm of never relying on an initial release to be very usable is dead and dying in the rest of the software world. It's seldom tolerated in most other avenues--why is it such an "everybody knows" thing for musicians?

I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to continue to bend over and accept this way of doing things as a given. Lots of people aren't, "as per" (gods, I hate when people use that term constantly to make themselves sound more astute...) my "necroed" thread where the Hotfix poll came out decidedly in favor of those who'd like to not wait just a few more months to use a MAJOR, highly advertised feature.

This is Steinberg falling down a bit, pure and simple. I really like Cubase quite a lot, and I've been a loyal customer for years. I also own full versions of Ableton Live, Reaper, and Logic. So, I'm not exclusive, but the vast majority of my serious work takes place in Cubase. Why? Well, I really like the workflow. I do not, however, like it when an important, powerful new feature is touted all over the Internet which compels me to go ahead and upgrade, only to find out that I have to wait *months* to use it.

I don't feel I'm being irrational here in questioning the wisdom of this paradigm, when Lord knows Steiny could be doing public betas that would EASILY catch these glaring omissions before the product goes to market. That they don't, and that these problems show up and typically take an unreasonable amount of time to be addressed is a problem--it is a nearly industry wide problem.

I think the emphasis should be on releasing and maintaining solid, usable, working tools. Nobody will complain if they know they're beta testing, if they've agreed to it. That Steinberg so often expects a n.0 release to be both paid for and gleefully beta tested is irrational, and they deserve every bit of ire they're getting for it.

5.5.2 has been crashing lately for me more often than is comfortable, so I'm having trouble with that as well. It's like there really is no safe pasture here.

Make music, get irritated. Everybody knows, that's just how it is, and nothing will ever, EVER change, right?

Right?

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:25 am
by DrWashington
By the way, Helge, thanks again for chiming in. At the very least, it's an incredibly welcome change to see Steinberg take a more personal interest in these threads.

The end of March was not what I was hoping to hear, but I know you're not in control of that. If you could be so kind as to pass my sentiments along to those who are in charge of that, it would, of course, be appreciated. Smaller, more rapid updates to address the more glaring concerns right away would be fantastic, even if they aren't 'hotfixes' in the strictest sense. Nothing stopping you from releasing a 6.0.2 a couple months out to cover the less urgent issues.

Timestretching is urgent, though. That's a big one. Lots of people use that nowadays. I'm one of them. :geek:


(Oh, and by the way, to conman... I hope you weren't assuming I'm a noob or something: I've been using Cubase since I first owned Cubase VST 3.0 for my Mac Performa back in the mid '90s. I've owned all the SX series, and now the plain, numbered series.)

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:31 am
by Guest
Thank you Dr Washington but I don't think you see the problem for whatever reason so allow me to explain.

The problem with sample rates has nothing to do with any one specific feature, it is due to audio management in Windows generally (don't know about mac) so Steinies view would be to release the program, otherwise wait 6 months, when there were already people banging the door down just to have a play.

You need to remember that not all musicians are "poor". Some can actually afford to test new versions on the side with a machine that is not necessarily their main workstation and thank God for them. Also your logic about the updates ie .01, .02 etc doesn't mean that is what will occur, even if it seems convenient from the users point of view because we don't have the internal schedule and don't know what fixes and/or updates to expect or when.

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:01 am
by Guest
Konundrum wrote:..is the sidechain metering gonna be fixed??
Bug report?

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:49 am
by curteye
Aloha,

If programmers are anything like most artists/craftspersons, their best work is done when working at their own pace.

Beating the paid for slaves to pick more cotton served to only slow them down.

But there may have been a measure of venting or maybe even fun in it for the beater.
{'-'}

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:20 am
by Guest
And let's not (or shall we) talk about the time in between the Great Wars.

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:22 am
by curteye
Brains wrote: the time in between the Great Wars.
Precisely. (interbellum).


{'-'}

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:29 am
by Guest
Yes curteye. There was a guy in the UAD forum who knew all this stuff like you maybe you know him :)

Anyway, since Dr Washington has stated they have issues with C5, maybe they could help our friendly devs (who participate too I might add) and outline any issues in the correct forum.

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:27 pm
by Conman
DrWashington wrote:Timestretching is urgent, though. That's a big one. Lots of people use that nowadays. I'm one of them.

(Oh, and by the way, to conman... I hope you weren't assuming I'm a noob or something: I've been using Cubase since I first owned Cubase VST 3.0 for my Mac Performa back in the mid '90s. I've owned all the SX series, and now the plain, numbered series.)
Timestretching existed before C6 I understand and it's quite adequate so it's not as urgent as the howling heading would suppose.
Sorry, but oldies actually know (as advised by nilsemil) that first versions are to be treated with kid gloves. We've long ago given up ranting for the first six months of product release.
Bit like pointing over an artists shoulder as he's painting and saying "You've missed a bit, mate."
The paint is still wet. Let it dry first. But don't waste time watching it dry and poking it to see if it is. :)

Re: Taking their sweet time

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:59 pm
by alexis
Writing as a general consumer, rather than a Cubase user:

In the "real world", if a company releases a new product and touts its new features all over the place, the new features are expected to work. If they don't, there's generally a perception of incompetence at least, or even possibly deception, and the company generally gets crucified by consumers and the media.

It's always interesting in these cases to read the reviews in SOS, etc. ... "Fine product!!! If I had to niggle I'd point out that the hugely important feature maybe doesn't work at all, butCompany X should really be commended for the awesome concept development ...".