Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

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Conman
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Conman »

There actually are, in demonstrable areas, too many clicks, too many steps, too much distraction from the music and I think they - Steinberg - actually do recognize that on some level...
Not to take away from the request being made here but how in hell did anyone ever make a record before the dawn of DAWs?
These days nothing is a distraction from the music regarding simple button-pushing.

The request inherent in the thread has nothing wrong with it but trying to gild the lilies with statements like the one above will just make the sceptical a bit more sceptical. And give them a chuckle.

Guitars / keyboards / drums with strings etc. you don't have to press, push or whack? God it must so take away from the music. Just push the buttons! :lol:
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Chris Young »

Audiocave wrote:Wow. New forum, new interactive attitude from Steinberg, same old "fanboy users slapping down anything that can be remotely considered a complaint" or anything that might lead to a conversation that might lead towards actual workflow improvement. Same old Cubase.net.

Joe 2011: Too many mouseclicks to do some things?
Jack 2011: Whaddya want? Cubase to do everything for you? Jeez, get a life!

Joe 2012: Wow. I really like the new drag/drop bus/send/insert creation methods in Cubase 8!
Jack 2012: Yeah! Best thing ever in any daw ever! Cubase is the cat's pajamas! Best daw in the history of the world! Those things make the workflow so much better. Steiny devs are geniuses!

The cycle is so predictable it's ridiculous. Slam anything until you get it then it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. The issue isn't the Marky Goldstein's of the world, he just made an observation that many others I know using Cubase agree with, in a relative way. The issue is people who don't have anything constructive to add to the conversation but take every opportunity to sidetrack it with nonsense.
Really well said
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Conman
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Conman »

And then there are those who try to squash any discussion by shouting "Same old, same old!"
Mr Goldsteins proposition has nothing wrong with it and all the "opposing" replies are just pointing out that life's not really that bad. It's not worth getting over emotional about as some posters seem to be going.
Otherwise nobody would ever learn to play a guitar with their left hand.

But to try and get positive.
If the thread read "Can these mouse-clicks be reduced?" would maybe lead to less emotive replies.
Programmers need focus so maybe identifying where "crowds" of mouse clicking occurs and how most users might be best benefited by a streamlining in those areas.
Not really productive quoting other programs because they might work, both in the foreground or the background, for the programmer in a very different way.
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by curteye »

Aloha guys
I pointed out a similar prob with C5
http://cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=137546

But as I learned from other forum members the Cubase's greatly expanded
key command function can really help to alleviate the 'many cliks' problem.

I had not used KC's much before then. Now I could not work without them.


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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Audiocave »

Conman wrote:Not really productive quoting other programs because they might work, both in the foreground or the background, for the programmer in a very different way.
They're doing exactly that already, as they should be, so I have no idea what you're talking about exactly. :?: If they'd copied half of the methods from the mixer (or other daw mixers) I'd have updated without even getting a demo... at that price.

See (below) your new C6 "right click to expose envelopes" and your new "Automation Scaler" tool. Direct copies as far as I can tell and good choices by Steiny actually, and apparently C6 users like these "improvements" very much and think they (gasp! the horror!) reduce steps and clicks.

All these native hosts copy methods from each other which is why people talk about them...

Image

Anyway, I'll stop "quoting other programs" here. I'll never do it again, that's a promise.

Best regards.

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by galvinstephen »

Audiocave wrote: They're doing exactly that already, as they should be, so I have no idea what you're talking about exactly. :?: If they'd copied half of the methods from the mixer (or other daw mixers) I'd have updated without even getting a demo... at that price.

See (below) your new C6 "right click to expose envelopes" and your new "Automation Scaler" tool. Direct copies as far as I can tell and good choices by Steiny actually, and apparently C6 users like these "improvements" very much and think they (gasp! the horror!) reduce steps and clicks.

All these native hosts copy methods from each other which is why people talk about them...

Image

Anyway, I'll stop "quoting other programs" here. I'll never do it again, that's a promise.

Best regards.
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by nke »

This illustrates the point nicely:

http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=515

There are easier ways to do things. Doesn't mean Cubsae isn't powerful, feature rich, a helluva program, superlative, superlative, superlative.

Just means that it has a lot of room for some workflow improvements.

AudioCave - Your posts are well thought out and always professional across the forums you visit. Thanks.
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by chase »

Thread moved to the lounge.

So does this mean Steinberg doesn't want to know whether or where, in Cubase, heavy users would like the interface made more smooth and efficient?

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Conman »

Anyway, I'll stop "quoting other programs" here. I'll never do it again, that's a promise.
Thank you. Bout time. :lol:
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Audiocave »

nke wrote:Your posts are well thought out and always professional across the forums you visit. Thanks.
Thanks. I try to behave like a grown up.
Last edited by Audiocave on Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Audiocave »

galvinstephen wrote:Ay. Tis a beautiful ting. What does it sound like?
It sounds fine to me, they all do. Here's a "first draft" of a demo mix I'm working on in it currently. The only 3rd party plugs I used were Altiverb and Waves RComp (vocals). I still have probably two hours of work left to do on it to get where it to where I want it. More automation and some dynamic EQ on the vocals among some other things.

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by johngar »

Marky Goldstein wrote:Getting a Send FX such as reverb should be a one click action, either choosing an existing effect (FX track) or an additional new effect. Click, select, let go -> done. It would choose default settings that would be adjusted from there.

That's just one example to begin with.
There are simple programs for simple users like Sequel and Garage Band that offer simple one click setups. Perhaps you should take a look at those.
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by chase »

johngar wrote:There are simple programs for simple users like Sequel and Garage Band that offer simple one click setups. Perhaps you should take a look at those.
Good grief, that's fu**ing rude.

Did you read the whole thread before posting?

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by johngar »

chase wrote:
johngar wrote:There are simple programs for simple users like Sequel and Garage Band that offer simple one click setups. Perhaps you should take a look at those.
Good grief, that's fu**ing rude.

Did you read the whole thread before posting?
Sorry, I don't come here to be rude, and it's not meant to be.
It sounds like the OP is having to an issue with too many mouse clicks. There are other programs that are not as deep as Cubase, thus requiring less setup. Cubase is sophisticated software with many routing possibilities that not everyone needs.
I apologize, I don't mean to make anyone feel stupid, maybe I am.
I don't agree that it is too many mouse clicks, but that does not mean there is not room for workflow improvements.
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Auster »

Audiocave wrote:
Conman wrote:Not really productive quoting other programs because they might work, both in the foreground or the background, for the programmer in a very different way.
They're doing exactly that already, as they should be, so I have no idea what you're talking about exactly. :?: If they'd copied half of the methods from the mixer (or other daw mixers) I'd have updated without even getting a demo... at that price.

See (below) your new C6 "right click to expose envelopes" and your new "Automation Scaler" tool. Direct copies as far as I can tell and good choices by Steiny actually, and apparently C6 users like these "improvements" very much and think they (gasp! the horror!) reduce steps and clicks.

All these native hosts copy methods from each other which is why people talk about them...

Image

Anyway, I'll stop "quoting other programs" here. I'll never do it again, that's a promise.

Best regards.
Damn, this automation editing tool looks awesome to use!
What's that DAW?

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by patcub »

Looks like Studio One from Presonus, and this automation handling is indeed awesome .

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Marsman »

Marky Goldstein wrote:
But this problem of too many mouse clicks is all over the programme.
perhaps this works for you? It can be used as a mouse assistant

Image
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Centralmusic »

.

curteye wrote:
... the Cubase's greatly expanded key command function can really help to alleviate the 'many cliks' problem.

absolutely right!!!

--> please please, have a necessarily look in the cubase key commands/shortcuts!

there are so many very good shortcuts and options to improve your workflow in cubase!

erm...just yesterday I discovered that the complete preference settings (e.g.) are switchable via shortcut (!)
there is a shortcut for almost everything. With this my workflow is now very fast and rapidly.

8-)
!!! NOTE: This is a user forum. It's from users to users. This is not a technical support forum. Therefore sometime some Steinberg employees appear here and help the users. !!!
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Audiocave »

Conman wrote:
Anyway, I'll stop "quoting other programs" here. I'll never do it again, that's a promise.
Thank you. Bout time. :lol:
:roll:

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Paul Woodlock »

Look if someone is having a problem with too many mouse clicks and can suggest ways tr reduce them, then why take the *quiz*? A more efficient program helps everyone.

About a year ago I suffered RSI from mouse work. It was excruciatingly painful. I hope to never get it again.
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by JohnOnKeyz »

Audiocave wrote: Image
Quick question for Audiocave. This is OT so.. short and sweet. Where do you get the software to create your virtual tours? I have had people asking for something similar in regards to web design and could use an easy solution. thanks...
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by MarkOne »

Marky Goldstein wrote:For example throwing an effect on to an send... too much work.

But this problem of too many mouse clicks is all over the programme.
It was of course, all so much easier in the old days, switch on the outboard, find the patchbay sheet, figure out which patch point that outboard was on, find the patchpoint for the send from the desk, looking for a spare set of patch cords, find out that one of them had a dodgy connection, get the soldering iron on, mend the patch cord, patch it up, realise that someone had re-patched the bay and not told you, spend half an hour systematically trying to find the right patchpoint, realising that the return you've patched to is the one with the crackly pot, repatch to a working aux return. Nah, don't like the Teletronix, can we try the Focusrite? ... Sorry, Your 4 hour session is over, do you want to pay for another evening next week? :shock:
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Audiocave »

JohnOnKeyz wrote:Quick question for Audiocave. This is OT so.. short and sweet. Where do you get the software to create your virtual tours? I have had people asking for something similar in regards to web design and could use an easy solution. thanks...
Image

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Centralmusic »

MarkOne wrote: It was of course, all so much easier in the old days, switch on the outboard, find the patchbay sheet, figure out which patch point that outboard was on, find the patchpoint for the send from the desk, looking for a spare set of patch cords, find out that one of them had a dodgy connection, get the soldering iron on, mend the patch cord, patch it up, realise that someone had re-patched the bay and not told you, spend half an hour systematically trying to find the right patchpoint, realising that the return you've patched to is the one with the crackly pot, repatch to a working aux return. Nah, don't like the Teletronix, can we try the Focusrite? ... Sorry, Your 4 hour session is over, do you want to pay for another evening next week? :shock:
+ 1 !!!!

;-)
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Zenda »

Yes.

Hardware workflow has translated to software workflow, where leads and cables increasingly give way to virtual connections, and we are in the early days of optimizing user interfaces as, back there then, there were too many thin curly leads, strain protectors were multifarious and a gamble, and we had to remember to turn volumes down before plugging jacks in.

I bring to mind the work of Belden through to Vanne Damme, and the research and development done by Neutrik. A commitment to innovation in effectiveness, efficiency and elegance brought about cables, the reliability and bendability of which we could not have dreamed, connectors which solve the 'insert-bang' problem, and the right angle xlr connector which can be rotated around the pins during assembly to give the user choice as to 'which way up' it will be.

Mark's example above, highlights the negative consequences of lack of component-level optimization or fine-tuning in hardware. In software, user interface is the territory for virtual ergonomics as, for example, the guitar body was territory for physical. Thank you Leo Fender who shaved that angle at the rear of the Strat.

Critical path analysis is a systematic attention to detail of workflow in order to achieve and exceed production criteria: seeking to develop open access to control parameters for the user interface, so that user definitions and macros can function through key commands and mouse behaviour, is as natural and worthy an endeavour as the MIDI development of similar transparency at the level of note-parameters meeting assignable controllers at the input end of the chain; It is the endeavour to shorten the path between creative impulse and product.


However, in the creating of music, there are those who laugh at those 'obsessives' who 'know' that the last 5% of work put into a song is what makes the difference between IN and NOT in focus. Could there be some kind of 'Close enough for rock'nroll' attitude which bleeds into thoughts about the equipment and its use? Some, as has been suggested before, lack of experience of the depth of the program, and ignorance of what's needed in the fast lanes of creativity and professionalism?

We may find amusement in the geeky tweakers. They sometimes seem to be on the verge of holding public demonstrations, for the right of menus to have a choice of BOTH 'simple click then click chosen item' as well as 'click-hold then unclick over chosen item'. Neutrik's R and D Manager might have scoffed "Look, Tinkerbell, we make Cable and Connectors ... let the buggers remember to turn their OWN volumes down before pugging in." We cannot 'see' the basis of their intensity and commitment. This is because THEY are seeing a GAP, an ABSENCE. We see nothing, but they see the image of what should have been there to begin with, and they wipe our green phlegm from their eyes as they labour, pilloried beneath the weight of our scorn, to make that future real.

A man who gave a significant part of his life in answer to the battle cry "Too much zipping and unzipping," invented Velcro and, this future made real, we accept without comment. He is the giant on whose shoulders someone else noticed a Gap in the Universe, and went on to topple the world-dominance of tongue-and-tooth hard plastic cable ties.


I will not conceal my own shame. 1984, it was, I reviled one Charles Forbes whose suggestion for rewiring the components of my music gear I ignored. I wore out shoe leather and left, fluttering and dying behind me, a trail of hemorrhaged creative moments. But back then, if I'd told myself that one day I would be helpless without my Mackie Big Knob, I'd have just laughed.

But how many 'Why didn't I think of/appreciate that at the time' moments have we been given by those who lived their lives as if the world revolved around one click of the mouse? How big were those court cases around protecting 'One Click Ordering' for online transactions? "Toggle Hide/Unhide Inspector" deserved a national holiday with brass band parades. For itself, it earned its Kudos. For it's being the precursor, however, to numerous "Toggle Hide/Unhide" buttons in the mixer, it earns Immortality.

We are musicians, and one click at a time, we build music, and music builds the world.
And this building is about the SUM of all the one-clicks, the vision which recognizes this, and the attitude which honours this by making each one count.
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