Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

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Marky Goldstein
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Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Marky Goldstein »

For example throwing an effect on to an send... too much work.

But this problem of too many mouse clicks is all over the programme.

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by dinobose »

Marky Goldstein wrote:For example throwing an effect on to an send... too much work.

But this problem of too many mouse clicks is all over the programme.
would you like cubase to program itself for you?

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Winter Rat
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Winter Rat »

What do you want? How?
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by crofter »

Think of all those poor mice you'd put on the dole queue, there's a recession on you know.

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Audiocave »

I'll have to back up Marky here if 6 isn't better than 5 as relates to drag/drop or more logical methods that (collectively) let you think more about music and less about the UI. But I can't say personally either way since there's no demo yet. :mrgreen:

I do know what he's comparing it to... I think. ;)

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by galvinstephen »

Marky Goldstein wrote:For example throwing an effect on to an send... too much work.

But this problem of too many mouse clicks is all over the programme.
+1 We customise key commands as a lot of the work we do is routine. We delete commands that we do not use.

In the mixer we would prefer to type in the amount of send as a number instead of click and drag.

The same with the Quantize Pitch and Straighten Pitch controls in Pitch and Warp.
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by mindastray »

Marky Goldstein wrote:For example throwing an effect on to an send... too much work.

But this problem of too many mouse clicks is all over the programme.
Too many mouse clicks, ha? Poor you. Not tryin' to be an ass here towards you, Marky, but how time-consuming it can be to select the Send channel from the drop-down list? I mean how many family weddings and dinners do you have to dismiss because it takes a few seconds to use the mouse? I mean.. C'mon. This thread is useless and no help for others, to say the least.

People seem to start asking impossibilities instead of being happy for what they have. At least be happy that Bill Gates made the mouse all so popular that we all are able to utilize it. "Too many mouse-clicks", IMFG !!
galvinstephen wrote:+1 We customise key commands as a lot of the work we do is routine. We delete commands that we do not use.

In the mixer we would prefer to type in the amount of send as a number instead of click and drag.

The same with the Quantize Pitch and Straighten Pitch controls in Pitch and Warp.
I prefer using the mouse method much more instead. I would hate to have to double-click the text-area on every single occasion when I would like to edit some parameters value and START TYPING IT! No way. I sincerely hope that Steiny won't go on for that. I think there are enough possibilities to enter values by keyboard where that's needed.

And be honest here::: Do you think that if your Pitch Quantize value would be t.eg. 75% instead of some 76,8% when done by mouse then the outcome would be so drastically different? Plus you can also use the SHIFT button to adjust values in more detailed manner. I would think that's good enough.

I mean, when "coding" starts to get ahead of what's truly important (that is: HOW IT SOUNDS and how to do things quickly and easily) then we are pretty much off the line.

...And it's funny to have these quotes under the same thread. Someone begs for less mouse-clicks and the other one is comping that and telling that "yes, less mouse-clicks and more keyboard banging instead!" :lol: No offense.
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Konundrum »

Marky Goldstein wrote: But this problem of too many mouse clicks is all over the programme.


hahahahahahahahahaha.....

awesome. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by goddfodder »

sort of forum entry posted by some guy sitting in the dark waiting for someone to come turn the lights on for him.



Too many clicks is an issue i cant believe has been raised. I will say though in terms of editing audio etc, the interface has come on and on and is way more efficient and usable than past efforts. there's no end to the time saving little touches I keep discovering. if number of clicks is how this should be rated,.. its a lot less than past Cubase editions.
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by ExcelsiorWonderHorse »

Marky Goldstein wrote:For example throwing an effect on to an send... too much work.

But this problem of too many mouse clicks is all over the programme.
Why not hire an assistant to operate the mouse? You could sit back and concentrate on the decision making.

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Winter Rat »

ExcelsiorWonderHorse wrote: Why not hire an assistant to operate the mouse? You could sit back and concentrate on the decision making.
+1. You've read my thoughts :lol: . I was too lazy to post it, because of too many button clicks. :oops:
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by goddfodder »

I wonder if Steven Hawkings (who has to do it all with an eyelid) is even raising issues like this.


ill bet hes on Logic. miles superior in click terms. Everybody says it...
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Henky »

Marky Goldstein wrote:For example throwing an effect on to an send...
What do you actually mean by that?
If you mean selecting an effect as a routing target in the send slots of an audio channel ( :o ), well i can do that in 3 clicks.
1) click the "sends" section in the inspector
2) click an empty slot
3) click the desired effect
Ok this is providing you did setup a FX channel and you do need an extra click to actually turn on the effect, but i think that's not part of "throwing an effect to an send".
Now i don't think 3 clicks is too much work but i guess you allready found a program which can do it with less clicks so please tell me...

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Conman »

goddfodder wrote:sort of forum entry posted by some guy sitting in the dark waiting for someone to come turn the lights on for him.
I knew a high court judge who did this when the automatic lighting in his chambers failed. Kept the whole court waiting for half an hour.

I don't know what these guys are going to do when the oil runs out and they have to shovel coal from out of the outhouse to heat houses again. Mind you they'll have plenty of time as they won't be pushing buttons in Cubase.
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by ExcelsiorWonderHorse »

Conman wrote:I don't know what these guys are going to do when the oil runs out and they have to shovel coal from out of the outhouse to heat houses again. Mind you they'll have plenty of time as they won't be pushing buttons in Cubase.
It's true, now that peak oil has been and gone we have a real incentive to click while the clicking is good. Soon it's the acoustic guitar and songs to be passed down by word of mouth, generation to generation. A wind up solar panel/control surface hybrid would be good.

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Audiocave »

Wow. New forum, new interactive attitude from Steinberg, same old "fanboy users slapping down anything that can be remotely considered a complaint" or anything that might lead to a conversation that might lead towards actual workflow improvement. Same old Cubase.net.

Joe 2011: Too many mouseclicks to do some things?
Jack 2011: Whaddya want? Cubase to do everything for you? Jeez, get a life!

Joe 2012: Wow. I really like the new drag/drop bus/send/insert creation methods in Cubase 8!
Jack 2012: Yeah! Best thing ever in any daw ever! Cubase is the cat's pajamas! Best daw in the history of the world! Those things make the workflow so much better. Steiny devs are geniuses!

The cycle is so predictable it's ridiculous. Slam anything until you get it then it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. The issue isn't the Marky Goldstein's of the world, he just made an observation that many others I know using Cubase agree with, in a relative way. The issue is people who don't have anything constructive to add to the conversation but take every opportunity to sidetrack it with nonsense.

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by crofter »

The sooner you can just tell it what to do the better, it worked on Star trek.

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Audiocave »

crofter wrote:The sooner you can just tell it what to do the better, it worked on Star trek.
The sooner you can slide channels around in the maximized mixer (as one example of "too many steps or clicks") without taking the time to go back to arrange, opening a folder and rearranging tracks in the folder in arrange, then closing the folder again, then going back to the fullscreen mixer... just to do something as ridiculously simple as moving a channel over two positions one way or another in the mixer... the better. It works everywhere else... probably also on Star Trek.

And that's just one example of many where in Cubase it takes multiple steps to do what most others do directly. And it has nothing to do with the many other things about Cubase that actually are very well done. There are many examples of those things also.

There is actually a very good opportunity for a "positive constructive conversation" in regards to "reducing steps" in various places, but not here, in this forum. :? It seems that too many people are too defensive and take joy in their quick witted - and totally irrelevant - responses to legitimate observations.

Does it actually occur to anyone that the "new forum" probably also requires people to change some behaviors for maximum benefit, if that's the goal? You don't have to agree with everyone's observations to have a civil discussion that's 100% free of irrelevant nonsense like "shoveling coal".
Last edited by Audiocave on Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by chase »

Well, I haven't tried C6 yet, so I can't comment on the GUI. But Marty Goldstein's remarks do resonate with my experience as a frequent user of MS Excel. For what I do, the "ribbon" interface of recent versions involves more mouse clicks and longer mouse movements than the previous versions, so, whenever possible, I work in an older version. Even if it wouldn't add up to more than 10 mins extra in an afternoon spent entirely in Excel, it's very unpleasant when you're thinking fast about what to do, but at nearly every mouse action you feel your progress impeded by the newer interface - the concern's not so much about the total loss of time, but about the frustration at feeling your actions being repeatedly disrupted.

And I've used other software where a revision has added an extra menu to go through in some items before you can carry on as before. It's frustrating.

So, if that's what Marty Goldstein is experiencing, I do have some sympathy.

Also, I remember reading on the old forum about some users' frustration following a few changes in C5 that all required extra cliks. Different people's experience can be different, depending on which software features they use. I can believe that, for some who spend much of thir working day in Cubase, being slowed down even just a little can be frustrating when it happens hundreds of times a day.

The answer for a lot of software users is, of course, keyboard shortcuts - they're very much quicker, once you know them, but ... well ... there are only so many of those that my little brain will hold at once. :)

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Audiocave »

chase wrote:...the concern's not so much about the total loss of time, but about the frustration at feeling your actions being repeatedly disrupted.
Exactly. The things I'll be looking at in the C6 demo (whenever they post it?) will be related to that. As an example let's take the new "right click plug knob to call envelope" thing. That's Steiny doing exactly what the OP is talking about, reducing steps/clicks in that case. Exact same thing.

That particular concept can be taken much farther (if not already, no idea without the demo and nobody is saying?) by applying that same methodology to faders, pans, sends, whatever. Right click a random send in the mixer or inspector and display it's envelope directly. I'm doing that right now already elsewhere and going back to the Cubase 5 way is a relative "disruption" in that case.

Those little things do add up. I don't see the issue with discussing them in a constructive way and I don't understand why some get so (apparently) offended by the mere observations. Nobody is bashing Cubase here.

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Marky Goldstein »

Getting a Send FX such as reverb should be a one click action, either choosing an existing effect (FX track) or an additional new effect. Click, select, let go -> done. It would choose default settings that would be adjusted from there.

That's just one example to begin with.

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by galvinstephen »

The issue here is one of efficiency. In a production environment where you do tens of thousands of clicks every day it does matter. Anything that speeds up the workflow and reduces the tedium does make a big difference to workflow and productivity. We have production deadlines and timeframes to work with. For example it is common for us to turn a track around for a client in 45 minutes. The less mouse work the better. Keyboard shortcuts are so much quicker. In the business it is I believe referred to as 'automation' and by the way automation is one of the main services that companies like Cubase provide to their clients.

Also you need to watch out for RSI on mouse clicks. If some of the contributors to this column are not concerned with such matters fine no problem. How many would also go and buy a computer with a faster processor, more RAM, faster hard-drive and so on? See the connection?

My view here as a professional musician and producer is that yes detail matters and it is in fact attention to detail which makes the difference. Does a guitarist make sure that a single-fret string-bend is precisely tuned? Yes of course. We are musicians so why not make sure we do things right? Simple. No contest. I win. so there.... :lol:
Last edited by galvinstephen on Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by CinStudios »

I agree with the OP. I think you should be able to click and type ANYWHERE you can set a parameter.

I also agree that some people I've read on here are probably not professionals (making MOST if not ALL their living with music) and are therefore content tinkering away at this or that in the software to get it just right.

Work flow and quick ways to accomplish things are of the utmost importance when you're in the creative "groove" or on a deadline.

You know, some people even buy the software with delusions of grandeur that somehow, just by owning it and opening it up on their computer, they will suddenly be a producer or musician...

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Audiocave »

Here's what I believe to be an almost certain reality...
  • Cubase is a great daw with very powerful abilities and if you only use Cubase you'll always be happy with it. When I say "only use" I mean never really learn and do actual work in some other hosts, not just the occasional demo. So if the things being talked about here don't annoy you, just don't "really" use anything but Cubase and they never will annoy you.
  • If you do happen to actually sit down and learn and use something like Studio One or Reaper, there is a very high probability that when you return to Cubase those things will begin to annoy you much more. Very high. It happened to me. I was never annoyed by those kinds of things until I started using better methods.
  • As a practical matter there is really no comparison between the relative methodologies of Cubase against the methodologies of Reaper or S1 as relates to grouping, bussing, FX, chains, presets, sends, views, track management, stem rendering, bouncing VI's, etc, etc, so if you're of the mind that those things don't matter in the bigger picture, stay away from those two hosts because (if you honestly really dig in) they will probably change your mind about all that in relatively short order.
So the contextual and hopefully constructive observation is 100% unrelated to the total power of Cubase. It's one of the most powerful daws on the planet without any doubt. It's related to things having nothing to do with that late stage development power and it's deeper functions in some areas. I don't comp, use VariAudio, Logical Edit, Drum Edit, score, etc in every session or even half of my production sessions so living without those things in most cases is not an issue. Those other things I actually do repeatedly in every situation pre and post production.

As relates to just mixing, post-editing if really "advanced" editing is even necessary at all... I'd never (in it's current state) choose to mix in Cubase for the reasons I've outline above, even if I do choose it for production to take advantage of some of those advanced tools, if the project requires that.

So some of those people who like and were always loyal to Cubase are suggesting that it could perhaps tighten up some of those things so they can continue to feel comfortable in it and continue along the upgrade path. There actually are, in demonstrable areas, too many clicks, too many steps, too much distraction from the music and I think they - Steinberg - actually do recognize that on some level...
Cubase 6 is about making your music in the easiest, most effective way
I'll wait for the demo to personally quantify the above marketing statement but C5 doesn't fit that bill at all... relatively speaking. Not even close.

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Re: Working with Cubase still takes too many (mouse) clicks

Post by Rich »

Certainly an appropriate response from someone familiar with other DAWs. And I concur. As stated, Cubase is a very powerful program and can handle audio very well. But the notion that it's as optimized as it could be is simply rubbish. And I say that respectfully. But I'm also a user of Reaper, and while YMMV, Reaper's ease of workflow, by any reasonable standard, is better than Cubase's. And I've used Cubase for years and own Cubase 6.

I do love the eye candy appeal of Cubase and the included plugs. But re-thinking some of the workflow aspects of Cubase by SB would be a big plus to users like me. And I think they're headed in that direction as evidenced by the new, and easy, way to comp. Let's hope this progress continues.

-Rich

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