UR44 Low Input Gain

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fuzzydude
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Re: UR44 Low Input Gain

Post by fuzzydude »

bthom wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:03 pm
My question concerns the exact configuration fuzzydude used to produce the lovely acoustic youtube video. Did he have 2 Shure 57s set up in an XY pattern, both plugged into Triton Fetheads and TK Audio DP1s? I can easily afford 2 Fetheads, but not sure about the expensive TK Audio DP1s so if that's crucial, any cheaper alternative that might also do the trick would be appreciated. I'm fairly new to recording. What led me to this excellent discussion is a desire to record using M/S technique w my UR44 and a Cascade Fathead BE (side) and Share 57 (mid). Was sad to find that banjo and fiddle need to be sitting close (e.g. 6" away max) and the UR44 gain turned all the way up, and still nowhere near clipping level was observed
fuzzydude wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:42 am
Spiritos wrote:@Fuzzydude: Thanks for the tip on the Triton or any mic pre-amp for that matter. I had no idea those existed.
I wonder though if any pre-amp on a mic won't add too much background noise to the recording.

I only record solo voals and acoustic guitar. I also play the piano but that I record digital obviously.
At this moment I'm pretty satisfied with the recordings although I do see some use for a decibel booster in the future so I might check it out some more by then.
@Spiritos, although different mic preamps vary in their ability to produce clean gain your question about it adding to the noise floor speaks more of ensuring a proper gain structure for your equipment. When this is achieved, the possible issue you mention would not occur. For example, with a relatively quiet vocalist placed 10 inches from the mic, singing into an SM57 plugged into a Triton Fethead, plugged into a TK Audio DP1 (mic preamp) and finally into the UR44 with its input level knob turned all the way down (effectively not using the UR44's onboard preamp for gain) produces more than enough clean gain with no appreciable noise floor. I.e. suitable for an acoustic recording.

Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h1ku5-C_3w as an example of a live recording I did for a UR44 review where gain structure is set up correctly to help ensure an almost imperceivable noise floor in spite of the noisy surroundings. All the mics used in this example are condensers and only the UR44 was used for gain, no other gain boosting equipment, but the principle is exactly the same

As a sidenote the UR44 appears to produce noticeable self noise once the input gain knob exceeds 50-60%. Nevertheless its an absolutely great unit for the price, especially if used with a Steinberg DAW thanks to the integrated functionality :D
Hi @bthom, they were all condenser mics. 2 x AKG SE300B (CK1 capsules) in XY config and a CAD M179 and a Rode NT2-A in MS config. No Fetheads or my TK Audio DP1 were used. The whole purpose of the recording was to show what's possible with a relatively cheap hardware setup and appropriate settings using the UR44 with just stock plugins to record and mix a live ensemble. Setup was a major part of the demo as the location was less than ideal.

With 57's you'd absolutely need Fetheads or similar, or a good mic pre with at least 30 plus db of quiet gain. Hope that helps :)
Comps+OS: PC's (Win 10 1903) - Mac Pro (Catalina) - MacBook Pro (Moave) I Nuendo 10 | Cubase Pro 10 I Wavelab 9.5 Pro

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Re: UR44 Low Input Gain

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Note: I should’ve watched the YouTube video all the way until the end, when fuzzydude lists his setup. My bad. Meanwhile, a recording friend and I went back to the UR44 and Shure / Fathead recording arrangement and therein, verified that the UR44 has a lot of preamp noise when you turn the input gain up above about 50% (which fuzzydude also reports on in this forum subject). I’ve had other problems with my UR44 too (occasionally when the output knob is turned all the way down to zero, minute levels of output are still heard out of the monitors its feeding). In all, my friend, who had originally recommended the device to me, was sad to see how weak the UR44 preamps were. We looked all over the internet and manual to try and find out what their specs are (so I could compare them with other options). For the price of the 2 Tritons I’d have to buy to boost the gain for the UR44, I’m better off buying a better D/A. Bye bye UR44, you were my friend for awhile, but I’ve been disappointed on more than one occasion w your performance.

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Re: UR44 Low Input Gain

Post by Xerxes »

Hey,

Hoping to get some answers here but this forum looks pretty dead...

I just got a Rode NT2-A microphone and it sounds SUPER quiet through my UR44. I tried inputs 1-4, phantom power is on, and the gain is maxed. I recorded into my DAW and it sounds like I am whispering; -40db with my face in the microphone. I tried two different XLR cables but that made no difference. I then connected the mic to my preamp and ran that into the interface. Still ridiculously quiet... The only way I got it loud was to max gain and max output on the preamp, then put the UR44's input gain to around 75%. Doing that caused awful hiss and background noise, but I could be heard.

Is this a problem with the UR44 or with my microphone? I have recorded DI guitar with this interface and it had no problem with the levels. I also recorded vocals with an SM57. I had to have input gain maxed with that microphone too, but it was slightly louder than the Rode.

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Re: UR44 Low Input Gain

Post by fuzzydude »

Xerxes wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:41 am
Hey,

Hoping to get some answers here but this forum looks pretty dead...

I just got a Rode NT2-A microphone and it sounds SUPER quiet through my UR44. I tried inputs 1-4, phantom power is on, and the gain is maxed. I recorded into my DAW and it sounds like I am whispering; -40db with my face in the microphone. I tried two different XLR cables but that made no difference. I then connected the mic to my preamp and ran that into the interface. Still ridiculously quiet... The only way I got it loud was to max gain and max output on the preamp, then put the UR44's input gain to around 75%. Doing that caused awful hiss and background noise, but I could be heard.

Is this a problem with the UR44 or with my microphone? I have recorded DI guitar with this interface and it had no problem with the levels. I also recorded vocals with an SM57. I had to have input gain maxed with that microphone too, but it was slightly louder than the Rode.
Hi, are you monitoring through the DAW or Direct Monitoring?

Also, add your specs, comp, OS, DAW inc version to your profile signature so we can better ascertain how and who best to assist :)
Comps+OS: PC's (Win 10 1903) - Mac Pro (Catalina) - MacBook Pro (Moave) I Nuendo 10 | Cubase Pro 10 I Wavelab 9.5 Pro

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Re: UR44 Low Input Gain

Post by Xerxes »

fuzzydude wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:45 pm
Xerxes wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:41 am
Hey,

Hoping to get some answers here but this forum looks pretty dead...

I just got a Rode NT2-A microphone and it sounds SUPER quiet through my UR44. I tried inputs 1-4, phantom power is on, and the gain is maxed. I recorded into my DAW and it sounds like I am whispering; -40db with my face in the microphone. I tried two different XLR cables but that made no difference. I then connected the mic to my preamp and ran that into the interface. Still ridiculously quiet... The only way I got it loud was to max gain and max output on the preamp, then put the UR44's input gain to around 75%. Doing that caused awful hiss and background noise, but I could be heard.

Is this a problem with the UR44 or with my microphone? I have recorded DI guitar with this interface and it had no problem with the levels. I also recorded vocals with an SM57. I had to have input gain maxed with that microphone too, but it was slightly louder than the Rode.
Hi, are you monitoring through the DAW or Direct Monitoring?

Also, add your specs, comp, OS, DAW inc version to your profile signature so we can better ascertain how and who best to assist :)
Both. I listened to the microphone levels through my DAW, Reaper, and I listened back through Windows sound settings and the voice app Discord.

I am running Windows 10 Pro on an i5-4670k with 8 GB and my DAW is Reaper 5.8.

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Re: UR44 Low Input Gain

Post by fuzzydude »

Xerxes wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:30 am
fuzzydude wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:45 pm
Xerxes wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:41 am
Hey,

Hoping to get some answers here but this forum looks pretty dead...

I just got a Rode NT2-A microphone and it sounds SUPER quiet through my UR44. I tried inputs 1-4, phantom power is on, and the gain is maxed. I recorded into my DAW and it sounds like I am whispering; -40db with my face in the microphone. I tried two different XLR cables but that made no difference. I then connected the mic to my preamp and ran that into the interface. Still ridiculously quiet... The only way I got it loud was to max gain and max output on the preamp, then put the UR44's input gain to around 75%. Doing that caused awful hiss and background noise, but I could be heard.

Is this a problem with the UR44 or with my microphone? I have recorded DI guitar with this interface and it had no problem with the levels. I also recorded vocals with an SM57. I had to have input gain maxed with that microphone too, but it was slightly louder than the Rode.
Hi, are you monitoring through the DAW or Direct Monitoring?

Also, add your specs, comp, OS, DAW inc version to your profile signature so we can better ascertain how and who best to assist :)
Both. I listened to the microphone levels through my DAW, Reaper, and I listened back through Windows sound settings and the voice app Discord.

I am running Windows 10 Pro on an i5-4670k with 8 GB and my DAW is Reaper 5.8.
I’ve never run into this problem but I have a UR44 in the cupboard. I’ll hook it up and run some tests too if I can replicate. Can you post a screen shot of your settings in the Steinberg dspMixFX app?
Comps+OS: PC's (Win 10 1903) - Mac Pro (Catalina) - MacBook Pro (Moave) I Nuendo 10 | Cubase Pro 10 I Wavelab 9.5 Pro

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Re: UR44 Low Input Gain

Post by fuzzydude »

Can you check to see if you have insert fx insert activated in dspMixFX and check to see if the input level is has been turned down. See attached. It's on Mac here but its the same on Windows.
insert-fx.jpg
see item bound in red
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dspmixfx.jpg
see item bound in red
(91.04 KiB) Not downloaded yet
With the correct settings in dspmixfx I have no issues with levels. What you can expect with the Rode is with the input at 50% (wouldn't suggest any higher re noise floor issues) and dspmixfx either set to the default shown or switched off, you should not have any issues monitoring through your headphones, assuming your headphones are of the correct impedance for the UR44.

Hoe this helps.

Steve
Comps+OS: PC's (Win 10 1903) - Mac Pro (Catalina) - MacBook Pro (Moave) I Nuendo 10 | Cubase Pro 10 I Wavelab 9.5 Pro

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Re: UR44 Low Input Gain

Post by Xerxes »

fuzzydude wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:56 am
Can you check to see if you have insert fx insert activated in dspMixFX and check to see if the input level is has been turned down. See attached. It's on Mac here but its the same on Windows.

insert-fx.jpg
dspmixfx.jpg

With the correct settings in dspmixfx I have no issues with levels. What you can expect with the Rode is with the input at 50% (wouldn't suggest any higher re noise floor issues) and dspmixfx either set to the default shown or switched off, you should not have any issues monitoring through your headphones, assuming your headphones are of the correct impedance for the UR44.

Hoe this helps.

Steve
I have never used dspMixFX. I didn't even know it was installed. Must have came with the drivers. I did not have any FX turned on and all the volume levels are the same as yours.

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Re: UR44 Low Input Gain

Post by fuzzydude »

Xerxes wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 6:50 am
fuzzydude wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:56 am
Can you check to see if you have insert fx insert activated in dspMixFX and check to see if the input level is has been turned down. See attached. It's on Mac here but its the same on Windows.

insert-fx.jpg
dspmixfx.jpg

With the correct settings in dspmixfx I have no issues with levels. What you can expect with the Rode is with the input at 50% (wouldn't suggest any higher re noise floor issues) and dspmixfx either set to the default shown or switched off, you should not have any issues monitoring through your headphones, assuming your headphones are of the correct impedance for the UR44.

Hoe this helps.

Steve
I have never used dspMixFX. I didn't even know it was installed. Must have came with the drivers. I did not have any FX turned on and all the volume levels are the same as yours.
Sadly, it may be that you have a faulty unit. But since you noted you were unaware of the dspmixfx app, I wonder if there may be something else in your setup which isn't quite right. In order to assist further I would need you to outline your entire setup verifying all physical connections and routing within your DAW (Reaper) and provide screenshots so it can be verified. I also asked about your headphones. Please let us know the make and model.
Comps+OS: PC's (Win 10 1903) - Mac Pro (Catalina) - MacBook Pro (Moave) I Nuendo 10 | Cubase Pro 10 I Wavelab 9.5 Pro

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Re: UR44 Low Input Gain

Post by Xerxes »

fuzzydude wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:26 am
Xerxes wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 6:50 am
fuzzydude wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:56 am
Can you check to see if you have insert fx insert activated in dspMixFX and check to see if the input level is has been turned down. See attached. It's on Mac here but its the same on Windows.

insert-fx.jpg
dspmixfx.jpg

With the correct settings in dspmixfx I have no issues with levels. What you can expect with the Rode is with the input at 50% (wouldn't suggest any higher re noise floor issues) and dspmixfx either set to the default shown or switched off, you should not have any issues monitoring through your headphones, assuming your headphones are of the correct impedance for the UR44.

Hoe this helps.

Steve
I have never used dspMixFX. I didn't even know it was installed. Must have came with the drivers. I did not have any FX turned on and all the volume levels are the same as yours.
Sadly, it may be that you have a faulty unit. But since you noted you were unaware of the dspmixfx app, I wonder if there may be something else in your setup which isn't quite right. In order to assist further I would need you to outline your entire setup verifying all physical connections and routing within your DAW (Reaper) and provide screenshots so it can be verified. I also asked about your headphones. Please let us know the make and model.
Here is dspMixFX. I highlighted input 2 where the mic is connected in to. My preamp is on with gain and output at 12 o'clock and the UR44 line 2 input is maxed. As you can see the volume meter is very low. That's with my face right in the microphone.

https://i.imgur.com/5Mxo2XR.jpg

Here is REAPER. I recorded the first three without a preamp. Inputs 2, 3, and 4. Then I recorded with a new cable. Then I recorded one with the preamp.

https://imgur.com/Z4e546f

For headphones I am using Sennheiser HD 598's.

Let me know if you need anything else. Appreciate the help.

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