Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

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simonzero
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Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by simonzero »

Well it's like this ..

I'm writing music on Cubase for a long series of 20 minute cartoons where I have a large number of midi and audio tracks. I write a first approach and use tempo track for all my measure and time changes so that everything works fine until ..

I get a list of edits and changes to do back from production. As soon as I start changing anything on the tempo map, or move anything, all hell's let loose!

Basically anything after the changes I need to make on the tempotrack is moved, although time signatures seem to maintain their place (really useful :( ) It's natural that it should happen, I understand that, but I must edit!

I end up editing the changes with no grid references, and if I have the misfortune to need to score new music on the same project ... it's like going back to pre-history on tape! I've even tried scoring the whole lot in 120bpm ... but what a pain!

I've been looking around on forums and manuals and I still haven't found a satisfactory solution in Cubase. It seems that what I need is some kind of marker - anchor point on the tempotrack so that the end of an edit doesn't move place, whatever I do with the tempo or time signature ... any help?

Please don't tell me I need new software .. I've been with Steinberg since Pro24 on the Atari!

Have a great day!

Guest

Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by Guest »

Correct me if I'm wrong... You change the tempo and events, that were in the correct location, move relative to the time signature changes?

If this is the case, what you need to do is change the track from a tempo base to a linear base. This will prevent the items from moving with tempo changes. In the track's properties inspector (far left column), look for the orange note. Click that button and it will change to a gray clock. Then change the tempo and items should stay at the same timecode location.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Guest

Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by Guest »

You need to use Insert Silence and Delete Time to have the tempo track follow changes when you need to insert or delete bars for the edits.

Guest

Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by Guest »

Obviously... two people who read your post interpret it differently. I've read it again and still don't see your point very clearly.
Can you sum up your original post by asking a single question in as few sentences as possible?

Guest

Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by Guest »

simonzero wrote:As soon as I start changing anything on the tempo map, or move anything,
It's both things we've mentioned which is why I added my answer. ;)

simonzero
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Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by simonzero »

Summing up ... I need everything in Muiscal Mode because I'm working with Music, Bars & Beats. My problem is making a change (new tempo or time signature) in the middle of the project. As soon as i insert a new tempo in the middle it has (obvious) consequences on the rest of the tempo track.

I want to make changes to a part of the project without it affecting the rest.

Guest

Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by Guest »

simonzero wrote:Summing up ... I need everything in Muiscal Mode because I'm working with Music, Bars & Beats.
I think that's a common misconception.... Just because you're working with music doesn't mean that the track in question should always remain in Musical Mode.

To complete your task you can do the following. Change every track to linear mode. Change your tempo at the given area (nothing will move in other parts). Create the new music in that section. You could then insert measures or alter the grid to warp the tempo so that old parts realign to musical grid when your done. Then switch everything back to musical mode.

If the music is already in place and you need to change tempo of sections, duplicate your tracks. Leave tracks in need of change as musical mode but change the others to linear (the ones you don't want to move). Alter tempo and musical mode tracks will follow but linear will stay in place.

Guest

Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by Guest »

**double post**
Last edited by Guest on Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Guest

Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by Guest »

** double post... again? **
Last edited by Guest on Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

paaltio
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Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by paaltio »

Always use Process Bars to make time signature changes for a cue that's not the final cue in the session. If you don't, you'll need to compensate manually for any changes you make. E.g. changing one bar to 3/4, you'll need to change one to 5/4 before the next cue starts. But definitely if it's a larger change, then Process Bars is what you should use.

When you change the tempo map in a cue, the best way I've found to keep things in sync after that is to have two MIDI tracks as marker tracks. The first one is set to time base, the second musical. Then when you need to change the tempo map somewhere, create a region to both tracks in the same place after the cue you're changing. Also create tempo events at the start and end position of these regions.

Now lock the track that has time base (important!), and you're ready to edit your tempo map before this point. Usually I'll use Process Bars to add e.g. 50 empty bars, so I have nice room to work. After you're done, use Process Bars to get the two marker regions within one beat. Then finally set Snap Type to Events and use Time Warp in musical mode to snap the musical region to the exact same spot with the locked time region (make sure you have a tempo event before this point as well, so you don't change the tempo of the entire previous cue).

At this point it's important to update the tempo event at the region starts, because Time Warp will scale it as well. That'll screw up your sync for the rest of the picture if you don't change it back to its original value.

It's quite a convoluted method, and I really wish we had discrete songs within songs like Digital Performer has, but I've found this is relatively okay and still faster than using a separate session for every cue.
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X 32-Core, ASUS ROG Zenith II Extreme, 256GB RAM, RME HDSPe AIO, RTX 2080 Ti, Windows 10 (2004), Nuendo 10.3, Cubase 10.5.20, Dorico 3.5.10

simonzero
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Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by simonzero »

Thanks Paaltio! Looks like you've really gone into this stuff ... If you have the patience, can we go one thing at a time?

"Always use Process Bars to make time signature changes for a cue that's not the final cue in the session"

OK. So say I score three pieces of music to a video .. one at 120bpm in 3/4, the next after a few minutes at 155bpm in 5/4 and later back to 110 bpm in 4/4. In my case i'm using the same 30 tracks of virtual midi instruments. Should this should all be done in process bars? before i start writing? I want my grids and metronomes all working while i write these 3 sections ...

My problem has never been in this first run ... but turns up later when the middle section after all has be a new piece at 170 bpm and in 7/4 .. !

Dudleys100
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Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by Dudleys100 »

I am having the exact same problem. Unfortunately I am confused by the last answer :) and would love a simpler explanation if possible.

paaltio
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Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by paaltio »

Sorry for short reply, deadlines killing me here a bit... Here's a quick video that hopefully shows that method better:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8520185/c6_tcsy ... mewarp.swf

So #TIME and #MUSIC are just empty MIDI tracks I use as markers, where #TIME is locked (important so Process Bars doesn't change it) as well as time-based, and #MUSIC is just like any other MIDI track, so that it travels with them. And then whenever the tempo map has changed, I just have to line them up and everything's in sync again.

Note the final step which is fixing the right side of the Time Warp operation. If you leave that to the changed tempo, clearly your next cue (and anything after that) will be out of sync.

If anyone has suggestions for better workflows for this, would love to hear them!
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X 32-Core, ASUS ROG Zenith II Extreme, 256GB RAM, RME HDSPe AIO, RTX 2080 Ti, Windows 10 (2004), Nuendo 10.3, Cubase 10.5.20, Dorico 3.5.10

Gibrockson
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Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by Gibrockson »

Hello there, yes !
9 years ... 9 years later i'm reading your posts because i'm in front of that same tempo changing issue !

First i hope you've all been well that last decade and second ! did you find a new solution somewhere or is there a secret function
in Cubase Pro 10.5 i missed ?

Thanks for your answers !

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TimTam
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Re: Tempo Track problems on Editing Scoring for Video

Post by TimTam »

*bump* Same question.
Pity that video from 2011 isn't available anymore...

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